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bornontheblue

What do we do to get the Bobs & Rebels 18 vaccinated.

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1 hour ago, Rebels18 said:

But hey, keep picking on @Bob because he's wary of a vaccine that has a 0.1% chance to kill him over a virus that has a 0.1% chance to kill him when he has options to either wait for non-vaccine treatments or wait for a vaccination that actually uses protein sub-unit method that has decades of studies to prove it's safe (Novavax). 

See, it is utter tripe bullshit like this remark that unfortunately serve to invalidate the wealth of information you've shared in this discussion from your own admittedly impressive deep dive on the subject.

Please post one - just one - link to a peer reviewed, published study that shows 1 in a 1,000 people who receive one of the mRNA vaccines has died. What f*cking nonsense man. :waiting:

And news flash: you say you don't want to be part of an experiment? Well, guess what? You're part of the control group. :facepalm:

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15 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

See, it is utter tripe bullshit like this remark that unfortunately serve to invalidate the wealth of information you've shared in this discussion from your own admittedly impressive deep dive on the subject.

Please post one - just one - link to a peer reviewed, published study that shows 1 in a 1,000 people who receive one of the mRNA vaccines has died. What f*cking nonsense man. :waiting:

And news flash: you say you don't want to be part of an experiment? Well, guess what? You're part of the control group. :facepalm:

And another thing just because a study got peer reviewed doesn’t mean it is valid. The peer review process could completely invalidate it. It could be peer reviewed bullshit, but hey @rebels 18 is too stupid to know the difference. 

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1 hour ago, bornontheblue said:

You are a complete anti vax and anti science Ignorant fool. What’s worse is that you found some obscure research that you have no idea how to interpret, and you  use it to boast confidently in your own ignorance. You are not  just ignorant, you are proud of your ignorance. 

Wow, you said the word ignorant 4 times. Good argument. What did I say specifically that was "anti-science"? Your brain is too squishy and smooth to to illicit any future responses from me. 

42 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

See, it is utter tripe bullshit like this remark that unfortunately serve to invalidate the wealth of information you've shared in this discussion from your own admittedly impressive deep dive on the subject.

Please post one - just one - link to a peer reviewed, published study that shows 1 in a 1,000 people who receive one of the mRNA vaccines has died. What f*cking nonsense man. :waiting:

And news flash: you say you don't want to be part of an experiment? Well, guess what? You're part of the control group. :facepalm:

I was hoping @bornontheblue would tag in someone like you. Since Trump got voted out, it's been awhile since we've had internet beef!

The vaccine has barely been released long enough to extrapolate that kind of information yet.--and let's face it: the media/bigpharma/government agenda is clearly taking the stance of everyone get vaxxed and we'll kick the can down the road of any possible consequences of that later. For the record, The mRNA vaccine works as intended and isn't part of the problem, I'm just not convinced it's the safest solution yet. I said multiple times the vaccine is effective in immunizing against COVID. But, it still introduces your body to the S1 spike proteins that produce the build-up of non-classical monocytes that knockdown your immune system and making you susceptible to other problems I listed above (nano-clotting, vasodilation, etc) and may even require future booster shots to keep your immune to future variants. This is rare, but enough for me to want to explore other options. You can get these S1 Spike proteins from either getting COVID or taking the vaccine. The possible long-term effects (15 month+) of these proteins are in the study I posted above.

By the way, I never said "I don't want to be part of an experiment" -- I just said I don't want to take an experimental mRNA vaccination when I have the freedom (atleast for now) to pursue other options. 

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23 minutes ago, bornontheblue said:

And another thing just because a study got peer reviewed doesn’t mean it is valid. The peer review process could completely invalidate it. It could be peer reviewed bullshit, but hey @rebels 18 is too stupid to know the difference. 

Nah, R18 is highly intelligent; his posts (unlike Boob's) display a nuanced grasp of the subject that can only come from an honest desire subsequent and effort to educate oneself.

And you are correct - peer reviews can (and often do) invalidate a study's findings before they are published (hence the peer reviewed and published condition). I think a lot of people underestimate how competitive the rush to publish is and the fact that because of this, peer reviews (regardless of the field of research) are intrinsically critical.

Tbh it's as shame that such a solid post could end on such a moist queef of bullshit.

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2 hours ago, Rebels18 said:

Post one study that says no spike proteins are showing up after vaccination and that non-classical monocytes aren't building up. Whether you catch COVID or get the vaccination, your body will produce the S1 spike proteins. That's literally the action of the vaccination and why it's effective against immunizing against COVID. It makes your cells produce spike proteins to illicit an immune response and create antibodies to prevent you from future infection. This isn't the problem I'm presenting if you fully read what I posted:  it's the  S1 proteins presenting monocytes that aren't going away. Which is why the vaccinated people (or people who previously had COVID) aren't fully protected. 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352767983_Persistence_of_SARS_CoV-2_S1_Protein_in_CD16_Monocytes_in_Post-Acute_Sequelae_of_COVID-19_PASC_Up_to_15_Months_Post-Infection

No I didn't. You "think" I mentioned it? LOL I either did or I didn't. Your reading comprehension is bad. This isn't a right wing vs left wing debate. These are facts that I dare you to argue against: I said the virus had a malaria-like function in the blood of stripping hemes off hemoglobin--which is why people turned to hydroxychloroquine---I didn't say it was effective. Researchers combined hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic azithromycin to reduce the viral load--and it had some positive outcomes. But again, COVID is a multi-facted problem. What the virus does and what the spike proteins do are two separate things.  Your body responds by creating antibodies that recognize and destroy spike proteins (which neutralizes COVID's ability to replicate within the body). But the spike protein symptoms (nanoclotting, vasodilation, and inflammation) are not what the virus does (destroying hemoglobin). Ivermectin however is producing some positive results in killing the virus. 

You guys really can't stand on your own two feet in arguing this topic with me. It must be my big brain CCSD/UNLV education.  I know I posted big long paragraphs, but you're taking little snippets of what I'm saying and trying to twist them---and failing completely. But hey, keep picking on @Bob because he's wary of a vaccine that has a 0.1% chance to kill him over a virus that has a 0.1% chance to kill him when he has options to either wait for non-vaccine treatments or wait for a vaccination that actually uses protein sub-unit method that has decades of studies to prove it's safe (Novavax). 

I don't understand how you think you're "winning" this argument by regurgitating medical jargon you read in a social media post or something.  There is no evidence the spike proteins created by the vaccine have any detrimental effect on humans. I found one small study about theoretical toxicity in tadpoles. You're making all these claims with zero proof. I think you know your sources would be knocked down just like Bob's are and so are not sharing them.

Using the spike proteins has proven to be very effective at stimulating the immune system to recognize the virus and it's what we have NOW. Hate to break it to you, but NOW is when we have to do something. When we have something safe and effective NOW that may or may not be as effective as a product that is not yet available, your choice should be clear.

@TheSanDiegan already addressed your exaggeration of 1/1000 mortality rate you claimed. That type of exaggeration included in any argument is definitely going to hurt it and makes the whole essay and author easy to dismiss.

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Most lay people have no understanding of the complexity of the epidemiology field. IMO it’s unwise to discount research that may lead to a vaccine that is better than the ones currently being used. I’ll leave it up to the peer reviewing experts to sort things out and determine validity. 

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2 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Most lay people have no understanding of the complexity of the epidemiology field. IMO it’s unwise to discount research that may lead to a vaccine that is better than the ones currently being used. I’ll leave it up to the peer reviewing experts to sort things out and determine validity. 

Dammit we need a delete function to erase duplicate posts.

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2 hours ago, Rebels18 said:

Post one study that says no spike proteins are showing up after vaccination and that non-classical monocytes aren't building up. Whether you catch COVID or get the vaccination, your body will produce the S1 spike proteins. That's literally the action of the vaccination and why it's effective against immunizing against COVID. It makes your cells produce spike proteins to illicit an immune response and create antibodies to prevent you from future infection. This isn't the problem I'm presenting if you fully read what I posted:  it's the  S1 proteins presenting monocytes that aren't going away. Which is why the vaccinated people (or people who previously had COVID) aren't fully protected. 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352767983_Persistence_of_SARS_CoV-2_S1_Protein_in_CD16_Monocytes_in_Post-Acute_Sequelae_of_COVID-19_PASC_Up_to_15_Months_Post-Infection

No I didn't. You "think" I mentioned it? LOL I either did or I didn't. Your reading comprehension is bad. This isn't a right wing vs left wing debate. These are facts that I dare you to argue against: I said the virus had a malaria-like function in the blood of stripping hemes off hemoglobin--which is why people turned to hydroxychloroquine---I didn't say it was effective. Researchers combined hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic azithromycin to reduce the viral load--and it had some positive outcomes. But again, COVID is a multi-facted problem. What the virus does and what the spike proteins do are two separate things.  Your body responds by creating antibodies that recognize and destroy spike proteins (which neutralizes COVID's ability to replicate within the body). But the spike protein symptoms (nanoclotting, vasodilation, and inflammation) are not what the virus does (destroying hemoglobin). Ivermectin however is producing some positive results in killing the virus. 

You guys really can't stand on your own two feet in arguing this topic with me. It must be my big brain CCSD/UNLV education.  I know I posted big long paragraphs, but you're taking little snippets of what I'm saying and trying to twist them---and failing completely. But hey, keep picking on @Bob because he's wary of a vaccine that has a 0.1% chance to kill him over a virus that has a 0.1% chance to kill him when he has options to either wait for non-vaccine treatments or wait for a vaccination that actually uses protein sub-unit method that has decades of studies to prove it's safe (Novavax). 

I already. did.

"A recent study by Ogata and colleagues[9] reported the detection of spike protein in the plasma of patients following immunization with the Moderna vaccine, which was barely over the limit of detection. The authors noted values up to 6812 picograms [one thousand billionth of a gram] per mL (peak concentration) during the first week after the first injection. No subsequent peak and detection above detection levels were observed after the second injection. No full-length spike protein was detected at any time, and no nucleocapsid protein was detected in either of the patients, which allows us to rule out any shedding from COVID-19 naturally."

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/byram-bridles-claim-that-covid-19-vaccines-are-toxic-fails-to-account-for-key-differences-between-the-spike-protein-produced-during-infection-and-vaccination-misrepresents-studies/

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17 minutes ago, Billings said:

I already. did.

"A recent study by Ogata and colleagues[9] reported the detection of spike protein in the plasma of patients following immunization with the Moderna vaccine, which was barely over the limit of detection. The authors noted values up to 6812 picograms [one thousand billionth of a gram] per mL (peak concentration) during the first week after the first injection. No subsequent peak and detection above detection levels were observed after the second injection. No full-length spike protein was detected at any time, and no nucleocapsid protein was detected in either of the patients, which allows us to rule out any shedding from COVID-19 naturally."

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/byram-bridles-claim-that-covid-19-vaccines-are-toxic-fails-to-account-for-key-differences-between-the-spike-protein-produced-during-infection-and-vaccination-misrepresents-studies/

The spike proteins diffuse, the non-classical monocyte build-up that the spike proteins produced DOES NOT. That's the problem......... for the 10th time. @Stealthlobo I literally posted a link to the study in this thread two times and suggested you look at the independent studies done by Dr. Bruce Patterson as well as mRNA vaccine researcher Dr. Robert Malone. Your reading comprehension is bad or you're just being willfully ignorant. 

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13 minutes ago, Billings said:

I already. did.

"A recent study by Ogata and colleagues[9] reported the detection of spike protein in the plasma of patients following immunization with the Moderna vaccine, which was barely over the limit of detection. The authors noted values up to 6812 picograms [one thousand billionth of a gram] per mL (peak concentration) during the first week after the first injection. No subsequent peak and detection above detection levels were observed after the second injection. No full-length spike protein was detected at any time, and no nucleocapsid protein was detected in either of the patients, which allows us to rule out any shedding from COVID-19 naturally."

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/byram-bridles-claim-that-covid-19-vaccines-are-toxic-fails-to-account-for-key-differences-between-the-spike-protein-produced-during-infection-and-vaccination-misrepresents-studies/

This is exactly what I'm talking about. These type of people have their conclusion first and keep finding studies over and over again that "prove" their conclusion. Then soon after that study is found to be flawed and the conclusion debunked and these people then move to the next far right talking point. It's exhausting trying to convince them.

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5 minutes ago, Stealthlobo said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. These type of people have their conclusion first and keep finding studies over and over again that "prove" their conclusion. Then soon after that study is found to be flawed and the conclusion debunked and these people then move to the next far right talking point. It's exhausting trying to convince them.

You and @Billings are embarrassing yourselves. You keep posting that irrelevant study like it's is some kind of "gotcha" when repeatedly keep missing the point and then get frustrated with me for repeating myself over and over when you're the one that's too stupid to realize it's not about the S1 spike protein lingering in the body, but the non-classical monocyte build-up they produce that knocks down your immune system. This is why people who are vaccinated can still be susceptible to health risks. Is it going to sink in this time? Probably not. 

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18 minutes ago, Rebels18 said:

The spike proteins diffuse, the non-classical monocyte build-up that the spike proteins produced DOES NOT. That's the problem for the 10th time. 

you keep thinking the reaction to the vaccine is the same as the reaction to the Virus.  it is not.

 

I will stay with the consensus of the professionals on this not the outing research.  I am glad you are getting novovax although I want to see its effectiveness versus Delta. 

 

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1 minute ago, Billings said:

you keep thinking the reaction to the vaccine is the same as the reaction to the Virus.  it is not.

 

Now we get to a key difference: when a cell gets the effect of an mRNA nanoparticle or an adenovirus vector, it of course starts to express the Spike protein. But instead of that being assembled into more infectious viral particles, as would happen in a real coronavirus infection, this protein gets moved up to the surface of the cell, where it stays. That’s where it’s presented to the immune system, as an abnormal intruding protein on a cell surface. The Spike protein is not released to wander freely through the bloodstream by itself, because it has a transmembrane anchor region that (as the name implies) leaves it stuck. That’s how it sits in the virus itself, and it does the same in human cells. See the discussion in this paper on the development of the Moderna vaccine, and the same applies to all the mRNA and vector vaccines that produce the Spike. You certainly don’t have the real-infection situation of Spike-covered viruses washing along everywhere through the circulation. The Spike protein produced by vaccination is not released in a way that it gets to encounter the ACE2 proteins on the surface of other human cells at all: it’s sitting on the surface of muscle and lymphatic cells up in your shoulder, not wandering through your lungs causing trouble.

 

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/04/spike-protein-behavior

 

Wrong. If that was true there wouldn't be vaccinated people who weren't previous infected with COVID showing symptoms of the monocytes passing through the blood brain barrier and entering the body causing increased size of blood vessels (vasodilation), inflammation of blood cells, and blood clots. The chances of these side effects are small, but enough for me personally to pursue other options. 

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10 minutes ago, Rebels18 said:

Wrong. If that was true there wouldn't be vaccinated people who weren't previous infected with COVID showing symptoms of the monocytes passing through the blood brain barrier and entering the body causing increased size of blood vessels (vasodilation), inflammation of blood cells, and blood clots. The chances of these side effects are small, but enough for me personally to pursue other options. 

 

The T cell response to produce an unusual monocyte from the innate immune system after a mrna vaccine is not the same as the innate immune system response after an infection.  The immune system response is simply not exactly the same when comparing a real infection and the vaccine.

"First identified in a recent vaccine study led by Pulendran, these cells — a small subset of generally abundant cells called monocytes that express high levels of antiviral genes — barely budge in response to an actual COVID-19 infection. But the Pfizer vaccine induced them. 

This special group of monocytes, which are part of the innate museum, constituted only 0.01% of all circulating blood cells prior to vaccination. But after the second Pfizer-vaccine shot, their numbers expanded 100-fold to account for a full 1% of all blood cells. In addition, their disposition became less inflammatory but more intensely antiviral. They seem uniquely capable of providing broad protection against diverse viral infections, Pulendran said."

 

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/07/immune-system-second-covid-19-vaccine-dose.html

 

I hope the novovax vaccine works well for you

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36 minutes ago, Rebels18 said:

The spike proteins diffuse, the non-classical monocyte build-up that the spike proteins produced DOES NOT. That's the problem......... for the 10th time. @Stealthlobo I literally posted a link to the study in this thread two times and suggested you look at the independent studies done by Dr. Bruce Patterson as well as mRNA vaccine researcher Dr. Robert Malone. Your reading comprehension is bad or you're just being willfully ignorant. 

You also were fully convinced that Antifa was starting fires last year. Only on the internet can pretend physicians make an argument for pausing to take a vaccination that REAL physician’s promote!

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11 minutes ago, Billings said:

 

The T cell response to produce an unusual monocyte from the innate immune system after a mrna vaccine is not the same as the innate immune system response after an infection.  The response is simply not exactly the same at the immune system level to a real infection and the vaccine.

"First identified in a recent vaccine study led by Pulendran, these cells — a small subset of generally abundant cells called monocytes that express high levels of antiviral genes — barely budge in response to an actual COVID-19 infection. But the Pfizer vaccine induced them. 

This special group of monocytes, which are part of the innate museum, constituted only 0.01% of all circulating blood cells prior to vaccination. But after the second Pfizer-vaccine shot, their numbers expanded 100-fold to account for a full 1% of all blood cells. In addition, their disposition became less inflammatory but more intensely antiviral. They seem uniquely capable of providing broad protection against diverse viral infections, Pulendran said."

 

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/07/immune-system-second-covid-19-vaccine-dose.html

Maybe for the S2 protein, but not the S1. The S1 protein is eaten by the classical monocyte, but it making the monocyte change into intermediate and non-classical monocyte which are refusing to go through apoptosis. If the S1 presenting non-classical monocytes undergoes apoptosis, the S1 protein is destroyed and the clotting, inflammation, etc go away. However, in certain cases in vaccinated and non-vaccinated--this just isn't the case. 

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5 minutes ago, NevadaFan said:

You also were fully convinced that Antifa was starting fires last year. Only on the internet can pretend physicians make an argument for pausing to take a vaccination that REAL physician’s promote!

If you want to go back to that thread, I also posted 15+ articles of reports of people arrested for arson in forests in California, and the pacific NW. Many of which were also arrested for inciting violence in Antifa and BLM protests. I never said they were the root of the fires, just contributing to it to pursue the political narrative the media was using the fires for. 

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Just now, Rebels18 said:

If you want to go back to that thread, I also posted 15+ articles of reports of people arrested for arson in forests in California, and the pacific NW. I never said they were the root of the problem, just contributing to it to pursue the narrative. 

Ok fine. You are not a cop. You are not a physician. So you can organize a good argument on a message board. If you get sick your ass is going straight to a real one. 

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45 minutes ago, Rebels18 said:

Maybe for the S2 protein, but not the S1. The S1 protein is eaten by the classical monocyte, but it making the monocyte change into intermediate and non-classical monocyte which are refusing to go through apoptosis. If the S1 presenting non-classical monocytes undergoes apoptosis, the S1 protein is destroyed and the clotting, inflammation, etc go away. However, in certain cases in vaccinated and non-vaccinated--this just isn't the case. 

Well I have not dived into this as deeply as I am sure you have, but just did a few google searches for studies based on the info you posted. I believe what you say is supported by much of what is known today. That being the both vax and nonvax patients can receive, as a side effect, what the study linked below calls "Multi-symptom Inflammatory Syndrome." If what are you discussing is unrelated to this, my apologies, but this seems to be the medical condition you are citing.

The question, which I cannot find a clear answer to, is how common or rare this side effect is as a result of vaccination. Maybe I will be able to find more out there, but the fact that very little of this syndrome has been reported as a result of vaccination, and that the majority of the medical community is still recommending vaccination despite this potential side effect, makes me think this side effect is extremely rare... from the study... plus it seems you still actually have to get infected for it to appear... (bold and underline below are my own)....

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/7/21-0594_article

Abstract

We report 3 patients in California, USA, who experienced multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS) after immunization and severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 infection. During the same period, 3 adults who were not vaccinated had MIS develop at a time when ≈7% of the adult patient population had received >1 vaccine.

...

 some scientists are concerned that vaccination against SARS-CoV-2 can trigger MIS-C/A. We report 6 cases of MIS from a large integrated health system in Southern California, USA; 3 of those patients received SARS-CoV-2 vaccination shortly before seeking care for MIS. 

...
 

Conclusions

At the time of our study, our medical group was only vaccinating healthcare workers and patients >75 years of age. The 3 patients that were immunized qualified for early vaccination because they either worked or volunteered in a healthcare setting. These cases occurred ≈1 month after the peak surge of COVID-19 cases in Southern California. At the time these patients sought care, only ≈7% of the adult (>18 years of age) population who were members of the Kaiser Permanente patient group (≈3,776,000 members) had received >1 SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, whereas 3 of the 6 patients in this study who had MIS were vaccinated. These 6 patients were hospitalized at 5 of the 15 Kaiser Permanente medical centers across Southern California. We believe the temporal association after SARS-CoV-2 immunization is worth noting, given the theoretical concern of MIS-C/A after vaccination (3). We did not identify any patients with MIS after vaccination who did not have recent SARS-CoV-2 infection. It is possible that other case-patients in our member population were hospitalized outside of our 15 medical centers and thus were not captured for this case series.

Overall, MIS is rare in adults. In comparison we treated >50 children with MIS-C during January 2021–February 2021 and >100 since May 2020 among a pediatric population of 960,000.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) allows for vaccination after a SARS-CoV-2 infection after recovery from the acute illness and after the isolation period, with no recommended minimal interval between infection and vaccination (4). Most cases of MIS-C/A occur 2–6 weeks after an exposure or infection (13), although we have seen several children brought for care as late as 8–10 weeks after a confirmed infection or exposure. We need to continue to monitor for MIS-C/A after SARS-CoV-2 infection and immunization as more of the population are vaccinated, especially as vaccines are administered to children who are at higher risk for MIS. CDC and the US Food and Drug Administration co-manage VAERS (the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System), which is being used to monitor for adverse events after COVID-19 vaccines. MIS-C/A is listed as a postvaccination adverse event of special interest (5) and should be reported to VAERS (6).

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And another study...

https://casereports.bmj.com/content/14/4/e242060

Abstract

Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children has become a recognised syndrome, whereas a parallel syndrome in adults, multisystem inflammatory syndrome in adults (MIS-A), has not been well defined. Most cases occur several weeks following confirmed or suspected SARS-CoV-2 infection, but none have been reported in association with SARS-CoV-2 vaccines. Here we describe the case of a 22-year-old man, who received the inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine 6 weeks following a mild COVID-19 infection. He presented after his second dose of the vaccine with a clinical picture of a multisystem inflammatory syndrome-like illness. Additionally, there was laboratory evidence of acute inflammation. The patient’s condition markedly improved after initiation of steroids. Whether the vaccine augmented an already-primed immunity from the infection and contributed to the occurrence of MIS-A is difficult to prove. Understanding the pathogenesis of this condition will shed light on this question and entail major implications on treatment and prevention.

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