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smltwnrckr

I'll hand it to the catholics... they have some balls

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8 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

Speaking of the pope what’s he got to say about the above. 

From what I heard he is not on board with this.  Coming from Latin America he knows the dangers of mixing church and politics but we shall see.

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3 hours ago, sactowndog said:

From what I heard he is not on board with this.  Coming from Latin America he knows the dangers of mixing church and politics but we shall see.

Except he does it more than most of his predecessors. 

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16 hours ago, NVGiant said:

Was he a priest or deacon?

He was ordained as a Catholic priest even though he was married. In his case he just was never given the responsibility of a Catholic parish instead he was given other ministry work. But some who convert and become Catholic priests are given a ministry at a Catholic parish even if they are married.

The Pastoral Provision allows for discernment, studying of Catholic theology then ordination as a Catholic priest for former Episcopalian/Anglican priests even if they are married.

http://www.pastoralprovision.org/home.htm

http://www.pastoralprovision.org/process.htm

Supposedly there are roughly 125 married Catholic priests in the US who are former Episcopalian/Anglican priests.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/people/father-josh-married-catholic-priest-celibate-world

 

 

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On 6/19/2021 at 1:09 PM, FresnoFacts said:

He was ordained as a Catholic priest even though he was married. In his case he just was never given the responsibility of a Catholic parish instead he was given other ministry work. But some who convert and become Catholic priests are given a ministry at a Catholic parish even if they are married.

The Pastoral Provision allows for discernment, studying of Catholic theology then ordination as a Catholic priest for former Episcopalian/Anglican priests even if they are married.

http://www.pastoralprovision.org/home.htm

http://www.pastoralprovision.org/process.htm

Supposedly there are roughly 125 married Catholic priests in the US who are former Episcopalian/Anglican priests.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/people/father-josh-married-catholic-priest-celibate-world

 

 

Just read that story. I have to say. I never knew this existed. Huh. Well, I guess you learn something every day. 

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38 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Just read that story. I have to say. I never knew this existed. Huh. Well, I guess you learn something every day. 

In some ways that policy is similar to say the Greek Orthodox church. A married man can be ordained a Greek Orthodox priest. But once a man becomes a Greek Orthodox priest he cannot then marry or remarry (if widowed) for the rest of his life.

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Pope Francis has remained silent about the vote so far, which Vatican officials told The New York Times is a sign he's not concerned that the final version of the guidance will actually pass. Under church law, the Times reports, the final document would require either unanimous support, or two-thirds support and Vatican approval. Both of those possibilities seem unlikely, even if a majority of bishops back the document. "It's not going to get to that point," one senior Vatican official said. "It's inconceivable." Paolo Rodari, a Vatican reporter at Italy's La Repubblica, said he doesn't "think they are worried at Casa Marta," referring to the papal residence.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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8 hours ago, Nevada Convert said:

The F-ing Pope gets into politics, why not them? 

The pope is head of the church. The bishops are not. Navigating politics comes with the job of being pope, so to speak. Even still, the pope has not refused communion to, say, those who are pro death penalty.   

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7 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

You’re not supposed to take communion if you do not repent.

Yes, I understand that. Do you think Bill Barr, or any pro death penalty politician for that matter, repented before taking communion? 

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4 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Yes, I understand that. Do you think Bill Barr repented before taking communion?

I don’t know. That’s between him and god. If he is unrepentant, if any of them are unrepentant like I am, then they should not take communion. It shouldn’t take someone to tell them that if they really were Catholics, even bad ones. It’s not a choose your own adventure doctrine.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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29 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I don’t know. That’s between him and god. If he is unrepentant, if any of them are unrepentant like I am them, they should not take communion. It shouldn’t take someone to tell them that if they really were Catholics, even bad ones. It’s not a choose your own adventure doctrine.

Ah yes. Between him and god. But with this, the bishops have decided to intervene in that relationship, haven't they? First, there is a robust debate within the church of whether being pro-choice, in a political sense, is a sin at all. Getting an abortion is certainly a sin. But church doctrine is far less clear on whether being against government making that choice for women is a sin. Even if one is convinced that it is, and there are great arguments for that case, making the refusal of the Eucharist only applicable to politicians is questionable. Why not refuse the sacrament to those who support those politicians, too? (Considering the majority of U.S. catholics are pro-choice, I think we have the answer there.)

In the end, this was a purely political, and a slippery slope to boot. Because if you refuse the sacrament to pro-choice politicians, then you should refuse communion to pro-death penalty politicians. And if you deny the sacrament to the politicians then you should probably deny those who support those politicians. Now you've alienated pretty much every U.S. Catholic with a political opinion. Great job bishops!

Let me put it this way: 

"The concern in the Vatican,” said Antonio Spadaro, a Jesuit priest and close ally of Francis “is not to use access to the Eucharist as a political weapon.”

It's all moot anyway. The Vatican doesn't want any of this noise. But the bishops made a purely political move here, and their hypocrisy is evident to anyone who cares about this stuff.

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11 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Ah yes. Between him and god. But with this, the bishops have decided to intervene in that relationship, haven't they? First, there is a robust debate within the church of whether being pro-choice, in a political sense, is a sin at all. Getting an abortion is certainly a sin. But church doctrine is far less clear on whether being against government making that choice for women is a sin. Even if one is convinced that it is, and there are great arguments for that case, making the refusal of the Eucharist only applicable to politicians is questionable. Why not refuse the sacrament to those who support those politicians, too? (Considering the majority of U.S. catholics are pro-choice, I think we have the answer there.)

In the end, this was a purely political, and a slippery slope to boot. Because if you refuse the sacrament to pro-choice politicians, then you should refuse communion to pro-death penalty politicians. And if you deny the sacrament to the politicians then you should probably deny those who support those politicians. Now you've alienated pretty much every U.S. Catholic with a political opinion. Great job bishops!

Let me put it this way: 

"The concern in the Vatican,” said Antonio Spadaro, a Jesuit priest and close ally of Francis “is not to use access to the Eucharist as a political weapon.”

It's all moot anyway. The Vatican doesn't want any of this noise. But the bishops made a purely political move here, and their hypocrisy is evident to anyone who cares about this stuff.

Good! Don’t pretend to the mantle of a practicing catholic when...you’re not. Seems easier for everyone. 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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Just now, NVGiant said:

Excuse me?

Referring to the bishops and the politics. I don’t care if it shrinks the appeal of the church. Anyone who doesn’t want to be catholic can come on in, the waters are warm. I know, because I made them warm.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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14 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Referring to the bishops and the politics. I don’t care if it shrinks the appeal of the church. Anyone who doesn’t want to be catholic can come on in, the waters are warm. I know, because I made them warm.

Except, church doctrine is not clear on the issue of political support, as I said. Doctrine is not clear on a great number of current issues, for that matter. But in this particular instance, this is uniquely American. And the bishops don't get to decide unilaterally what it means to be Catholic.  

It's fine if you don't care. But I do. And I'd rather preserve the church rather than let a minority of conservative clergy usurp what I believe is still a beautiful religion. It is as much my church as theirs.

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7 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Except, church doctrine is not clear on the issue of political support, as I said. Doctrine is not clear on a great number of current issues, for that matter. But in this particular instance, this is uniquely American. I'd rather preserve the church rather than let a minority of conservative clergy usurp what I believe is still a beautiful religion.

And I do care. It is as much my church as theirs.

Church doctrine is not clear on abortion?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/pope-backs-argentine-womens-opposition-abortion-bill-74425351

Thats not a uniquely American problem. The church doctrine is pro-life. The politicians should change to a different religion.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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