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retrofade

Police Officer Flips Pregnant Woman's Car While Attempting PIT Maneuver

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3 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

 

It's a good thing lewd conduct is not a systemic problem with bus drivers the way criminality, including murder, is with cops.

 

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2 hours ago, retrofade said:

Even through the pretty damned limited training that they get, you have to look at the disparity in what they train,

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They literally spend more time training to shoot their gun than they do on the actual LAW that they're sworn to uphold. I mean, shit, 8 entire hours on Ethics and Integrity. I had to take more credit hours for my Information Technology Bachelors than the average law enforcement office in this country did. Nearly 600% more time spent on learning to defend yourself than on Professionalism. There is a fundamental problem in this country with policing. 

I'm glad you IT guys spend alot of time on Ethics and Integrity. You have alot of access to personal info at your grubby little fingertips. And I'm glad you dont have firearm training...last thing I need is my IT person drawing down on me and yelling " Reboot the mother +++++er...Control Ault Delete asshole"...

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3 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

It's not really arbitrary... the argument is there are so many jobs that require 4-year college degrees, and most of those jobs are not as high-stakes as policing. 

Not saying I agree, just that it's not arbitrary.

Here's my issue with that angle. There are plenty of careers that do not require 4-year degrees - everyone from mechanics to (other) first responders, to pilots, all who's job performance can result in a loss of life.

So unless we're applying the same logic to them as well, yes, it is somewhat arbitrary.

Furthermore, two of those four years (or most thereof) are spent listening to whales fart, fulfilling history, English lit, or some other GE requirement that have nothing to do with a person's major (unless their major is in one of said subjects, of course).

So while I wholly agree there is a need to increase training of LEOs across the board - with a far greater focus on embedded community policing, de-escalation, etc. - I think expecting some nominal training analogous to a four year university degree is a rather poor representation of the point. :shrug:

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2 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Corrections officers are the next highest IIRC.

 

Now that is a shit job. I think it draws the sadists... those w/o sadistic streaks tend to burn out quickly an lateral elsewhere.

Plus, those guys got to worry about running into offenders on the outside. F*ck that in particular.

I remember talking to a sergeant once from a local correctional facility and he told me about how he had to use the signals he and his family rehearsed in a Walmart one day. No, spank you...

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3 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

All ranchers are bad, too.  Every single one of em.  I am sure some good people are ranchers, but you can't be a good rancher.

#savethewolves

Please understand that watching you think you're cup is filled with awesome sauce as you practice your debate skills while so poorly representing the POV has been far more entertaining than actually engaging in said debate, considering you gave up the far more easily winnable side of the issue my man. :ph34r:

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3 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Please understand that watching you think you're cup is filled with awesome sauce as you practice your debate skills while so poorly representing the POV has been far more entertaining than actually engaging in said debate, considering you gave up the far more easily winnable side of the issue my man. :ph34r:

 

You think that 2 months after Baltimore put some platitudes into law their policing culture is changed.

LULZ

 

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4 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

You think that 2 months after Baltimore put some platitudes into law their policing culture is changed.

LULZ

 

Oh man. I guess you've just given up on arguing your (deeply flawed) POV altogether and are mailing it in now. 

That's cool tho... I get it. As Texas Dolly would say, you don't how good money after bad. :shrug:

Anyway, read about the successes in Cincinnati. I know you like to read - here's a link to a RAND study on the change in CPD's policies and policing that resulted in both lower rime and lower occurrence of use of force.

You see... that's the problem with all-or-none arguments - it only takes one example to defeat them, and there are no shortage of examples demonstrable of the fallibility of your own extremist position, amigo.

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25 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Here's my issue with that angle. There are plenty of careers that do not require 4-year degrees - everyone from mechanics to (other) first responders, to pilots, all who's job performance can result in a loss of life.

So unless we're applying the same logic to them as well, yes, it is somewhat arbitrary.

I mean, there's a difference between a job where the performance can result in loss of a life and a job wherein killing someone is part of the job description, whether it be actual killing or the threat of it. So the argument that having a position that brings with it immense immediate power have at least as much training as a teacher isnt that nuts. Again, not saying I agree. But am saying it's not an arbitrary number.

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Furthermore, two of those four years (or most thereof) are spent listening to whales fart, fulfilling history, English lit, or some other GE requirement that have nothing to do with a person's major (unless their major is in one of said subjects, of course).

Well, the ability of hucksters in silicon valley like the Theranos chick and the wework dude and others to get total buy in from people in the industry based on stupid stories and charisma suggests that maybe the diminishment if GE curriculum has a cost. And that maybe it would do society good for a cop to be familiar with some higher-level concepts from a diverse group of fields. I mean, these guys enforce the boundaries of society. Maybe they should be forced to think a little about society. 

Quote

So while I wholly agree there is a need to increase training of LEOs across the board - with a far greater focus on embedded community policing, de-escalation, etc. - I think expecting some nominal training analogous to a four year university degree is a rather poor representation of the point. :shrug:

Like I said, i.am not saying 4 years should be the standard. Just saying it's not arbitrary. It's a standard that exists elsewhere. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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23 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Now that is a shit job. I think it draws the sadists... those w/o sadistic streaks tend to burn out quickly an lateral elsewhere.

Plus, those guys got to worry about running into offenders on the outside. F*ck that in particular.

I remember talking to a sergeant once from a local correctional facility and he told me about how he had to use the signals he and his family rehearsed in a Walmart one day. No, spank you...

I'm sure it was no picnic for the ex inmate tonrun into the guy either. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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14 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Oh man. I guess you've just given up on arguing your (deeply flawed) POV altogether and are mailing it in now. 

That's cool tho... I get it. As Texas Dolly would say, you don't how good money after bad. :shrug:

Anyway, read about the successes in Cincinnati. I know you like to read - here's a link to a RAND study on the change in CPD's policies and policing that resulted in both lower rime and lower occurrence of use of force.

You see... that's the problem with all-or-none arguments - it only takes one example to defeat them, and there are no shortage of examples demonstrable of the fallibility of your own extremist position, amigo.

 

There is no argument to be had.  No cops are properly trained, all cops are bad cops participating in a broken system.  That's the beginning and end of the discussion.

Improvements are nice.  Not good enough.  It only took the murder of Timothy Thomas to start making changes. and they have only had one year since 2001 when they had less than 1 use of force a day.  Not impressed.  

Still looks like plenty of corruption and retaliating against those who expose it.
https://www.wcpo.com/news/government/greater-cincinnati-government/cincinnati-reaches-70-000-settlement-with-police-captain-who-claimed-unfair-treatment#:~:text=Cincinnati reaches %2470%2C000 settlement with police captain who claimed unfair treatment,-Photo by%3A WCPO&text=The city of Cincinnati will,system in a 2018 audit.

 

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11 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I mean, there's a difference between a job where the performance can result in loss of a life and a job wherein killing someone is part of the job description, whether it be actual killing or the threat of it. So the argument that having a position that brings with it immense immediate power have at least as much training as a teacher isnt that nuts. Again, not saying I agree. But am saying it's not an arbitrary number.

Well, the ability of hucksters in silicon valley like the Theranos chick and the wework dude and others to get total buy in from people in the industry based on stupid stories and charisma suggests that maybe the diminishment if GE curriculum has a cost. And that maybe it would do society good for a cop to be familiar with some higher-level concepts from a diverse group of fields. I mean, these guys enforce the boundaries of society. Maybe they should be forced to think a little about society. 

Like I said, i.am not saying 4 years should be the standard. Just saying it's not arbitrary. It's a standard that exists elsewhere. 

 

I could find a compromise.  You can do 4 years of training under a devised federally standard curriculum, or what ever your state currently does, but you don't get a gun, or a car and reduced pay.  You can be on a bike, a horse, or a motorcycle and have access to your taser.

 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I'm sure it was no picnic for the ex inmate tonrun into the guy either. 

A few questions @TheSanDiegan for clarity.  Was it a random encounter, or was the guy following them or being threatening?

If he was not following him or being threatening, why the response?  I can see wanting to become a cop for all the right reasons, to really make a difference in your community or whatnot, but it takes a special type to "want" to be a corrections officer.  I can see just kind of falling into the job through contacts or something without really wanting to be a sadistic dick but really want or really enjoy the job...yeesh.

 

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51 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I mean, there's a difference between a job where the performance can result in loss of a life and a job wherein killing someone is part of the job description, whether it be actual killing or the threat of it. So the argument that having a position that brings with it immense immediate power have at least as much training as a teacher isnt that nuts. Again, not saying I agree. But am saying it's not an arbitrary number.

Well, the ability of hucksters in silicon valley like the Theranos chick and the wework dude and others to get total buy in from people in the industry based on stupid stories and charisma suggests that maybe the diminishment if GE curriculum has a cost. And that maybe it would do society good for a cop to be familiar with some higher-level concepts from a diverse group of fields. I mean, these guys enforce the boundaries of society. Maybe they should be forced to think a little about society. 

Like I said, i.am not saying 4 years should be the standard. Just saying it's not arbitrary. It's a standard that exists elsewhere. 

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to the value of a well-rounded education. And maybe a few humanities classes would make a lot of cops a little less dickish.

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51 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I'm sure it was no picnic for the ex inmate tonrun into the guy either. 

This guy treated the inmates well, and as I recall the story, it was a jovial greeting. But this dude had to always be be prepared for the possibility, which IMO would be a shitty way to live.

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3 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to the value of a well-rounded education. And maybe a few humanities classes would make a lot of cops a little less dickish.

 

I think the streets would be a lot safer if every cop, in addition to 4 years of federally standardized training, was required to smoke weed once a day.

 

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20 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

A few questions @TheSanDiegan for clarity.  Was it a random encounter, or was the guy following them or being threatening?

If he was not following him or being threatening, why the response?  I can see wanting to become a cop for all the right reasons, to really make a difference in your community or whatnot, but it takes a special type to "want" to be a corrections officer.  I can see just kind of falling into the job through contacts or something without really wanting to be a sadistic dick but really want or really enjoy the job...yeesh.

 

I agree with that sentiment. I knew one guy who bailed SO because he couldn't deal with corrections. And I don't think you could pay me enough to do that job...

As I recall the story, there was nothing threatening about the encounter. He went out of his way to treat inmates with respect. But being out with the fam required a protocol because you never knew... for that matter, I doubt he knew it would be an amicable encounter, even though he sews the seeds to make them so if and when they occur.

 

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