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misplacedcowboy

Biden/Harris building on Trump's border policy?

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6 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Team neither is racist are laughing.

Team come get your healthcare isn’t looking great.

WireAP_ccba19b8b9b64adeab74dfbfcb111961_

Racist:  Eating a taco bowl to gain favor with Latin Americans.

Cruel:  Child separation policy.

Not racist or cruel: Saying "this trip is incredibly dangerous, women are more likely than not to be sexually abused.  Men (and women) are likely to be beaten.  The mortality rate is really high.  We don't have infrastructure in place to accommodate everybody coming, we have a plan to help make your countries safer and more prosperous".

 

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8 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Racist:  Eating a taco bowl to gain favor with Latin Americans.

Cruel:  Child separation policy.

Not racist or cruel Should be obvious with the last clause being probably fallacious: Saying "this trip is incredibly dangerous, women are more likely than not to be sexually abused.  Men (and women) are likely to be beaten.  The mortality rate is really high.  We don't have infrastructure in place to accommodate everybody coming, we have a plan to help make your countries safer and more prosperous".

 

FIFY

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2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

FIFY

 

Having a plan is not fallacious.  There is a plan.  It working or improving things is a different matter.

You know what does not improve things?  A metric shit ton of their "middle class" migrating out of the country.  That does not help.

 

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2 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

Having a plan is not fallacious.  There is a plan.  It working or improving things is a different matter.

You know what does not improve things?  A metric shit ton of their "middle class" migrating out of the country.  That does not help.

 

Is there more to the plan than just telling people to stop coming and kicking the can down the road until the border crisis can be used again as a campaign slogan?

If their current environment is so dangerous, doesn't Harris' message imply that asylum would not be granted and everyone will be turned away?

Just seems like rinse and repeat of the status quo. Teams don't realize they're 2 sides of the same coin.

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2 minutes ago, misplacedcowboy said:

Is there more to the plan than just telling people to stop coming and kicking the can down the road until the border crisis can be used again as a campaign slogan?

If their current environment is so dangerous, doesn't Harris' message imply that asylum would not be granted and everyone will be turned away?

Just seems like rinse and repeat of the status quo. Teams don't realize they're 2 sides of the same coin.

 

https://cis.org/Report/Biden-Plan-Northern-Triangle

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5 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

"...but a detailed plan has not been made public for what the funds will target, how funds will be allocated, what regions will be emphasized..."

I agree that explicitly stating there's an issue with Central American countries and commuting aid for them is a good first step. Honestly, a lot of the "Build the wall" folks probably think it's a Mexico-only problem. I guess color me skeptical that any legitimate and meaningful effort will be made in those countries based on our history, and sound bites like "do not come, we'll enforce our laws and turn you away" doesn't really convey the right message.

 

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4 minutes ago, misplacedcowboy said:

"...but a detailed plan has not been made public for what the funds will target, how funds will be allocated, what regions will be emphasized..."

I agree that explicitly stating there's an issue with Central American countries and commuting aid for them is a good first step. Honestly, a lot of the "Build the wall" folks probably think it's a Mexico-only problem. I guess color me skeptical that any legitimate and meaningful effort will be made in those countries based on our history, and sound bites like "do not come, we'll enforce our laws and turn you away" doesn't really convey the right message.

Oh I disagree heartily on the last part. It’s pretty clear that years of false rhetoric has helped lead to this crisis at the border that the administration is bungling. Giving people the impression that they will be allowed to stay when they will not conveys exactly the wrong message. You can’t fix anything without fixing that first. Welcome to reality Kamala Harris, it’s a shame you’re the one with the job but oh well. Now go to the border like you’re serious about the problem. It’s only freaking June.

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34 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

Having a plan is not fallacious.  There is a plan.  It working or improving things is a different matter.

You know what does not improve things?  A metric shit ton of their "middle class" migrating out of the country.  That does not help.

 

Moar prisons is a plan. Nobody has any plans to move on it, but it’s a good plan.

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8 minutes ago, misplacedcowboy said:

"...but a detailed plan has not been made public for what the funds will target, how funds will be allocated, what regions will be emphasized..."

I agree that explicitly stating there's an issue with Central American countries and commuting aid for them is a good first step. Honestly, a lot of the "Build the wall" folks probably think it's a Mexico-only problem. I guess color me skeptical that any legitimate and meaningful effort will be made in those countries based on our history, and sound bites like "do not come, we'll enforce our laws and turn you away" doesn't really convey the right message.

 

 

It is a message that sadly needs to be conveyed.  In another thread I posted the statistics for how dangerous the journey is.  Coyotes work hard to paint a false picture of what the future entails for their own benefit.  They used/are using a twisted version of rhetoric from the primaries (sometimes not so twisted) and twisting what some EO's mean, to paint a picture of a promise that is not reality.  Saying "do not come" is combating that, and the Biden admin directly sending a message counter to the coyotes.

 

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5 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Oh I disagree heartily on the last part. It’s pretty clear that years of false rhetoric has helped lead to this crisis at the border that the administration is bungling. Giving people the impression that they will be allowed to stay when they will not conveys exactly the wrong message. You can’t fix anything without fixing that first. Welcome to reality Kamala Harris, it’s a shame you’re the one with the job but oh well. Now go to the border like you’re serious about the problem. It’s only freaking June.

THIS.

The fact she has not even visited a border town is mind boggling.

 

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The Democrat party have essentially promoted illegal immigration. Sanctuary cities, etc. Now that it has blown up in their face, they are trying to put a bandaid on a gaping wound. 

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5 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Oh I disagree heartily on the last part. It’s pretty clear that years of false rhetoric has helped lead to this crisis at the border that the administration is bungling. Giving people the impression that they will be allowed to stay when they will not conveys exactly the wrong message. You can’t fix anything without fixing that first. Welcome to reality Kamala Harris, it’s a shame you’re the one with the job but oh well. Now go to the border like you’re serious about the problem. It’s only freaking June.

 

1 minute ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

It is a message that sadly needs to be conveyed.  In another thread I posted the statistics for how dangerous the journey is.  Coyotes work hard to paint a false picture of what the future entails for their own benefit.  They used/are using a twisted version of rhetoric from the primaries (sometimes not so twisted) and twisting what some EO's mean, to paint a picture of a promise that is not reality.  Saying "do not come" is combating that, and the Biden admin directly sending a message counter to the coyotes.

 

I meant to say that her message to Central Americans shouldn't be "don't come" but instead "stay where you are, we are 110% committed to making your current community the safest place for you to raise your family, and making the dangerous journey to our southern border isn't worth the risk" if there really is any substance to their plan.

Simply saying "don't come" and not visiting a border town after being appointed a "border czar" 6 months ago doesn't really instill any confidence that the US is really serious about fixing the issue.

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Just now, misplacedcowboy said:

 

I meant to say that her message to Central Americans shouldn't be "don't come" but instead "stay where you are, we are 110% committed to making your current community the safest place for you to raise your family, and making the dangerous journey to our southern border isn't worth the risk" if there really is any substance to their plan.

Simply saying "don't come" and not visiting a border town after being appointed a "border czar" 6 months ago doesn't really instill any confidence that the US is really serious about fixing the issue.

 

Gotcha.  Agree 100%

 

 

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2 minutes ago, misplacedcowboy said:

 

I meant to say that her message to Central Americans shouldn't be "don't come" but instead "stay where you are, we are 110% committed to making your current community the safest place for you to raise your family, and making the dangerous journey to our southern border isn't worth the risk" if there really is any substance to their plan.

Simply saying "don't come" and not visiting a border town after being appointed a "border czar" 6 months ago doesn't really instill any confidence that the US is really serious about fixing the issue.

Have we ever been serious about it? This goes way back before Biden or Trump. 

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Just now, soupslam1 said:

Have we ever been serious about it? 

 

Oh yes, we have been VERY serious in fixing "problems" in the NT.  So serious we...well you can google.

 

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23 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

@grandjean87 your turn for an assist.

 

Just got back from a slow 4m run + 2m walk. SW Idaho summer evenings.  Session IPA down and should I do 1/2 gummy or not?

Ok. This is a long term policy project. The link you provided from that policy center is the type of planning that needs to take place. I read over half of it, and it just stood out as serious, practical, and critical policy.  I can’t say the Biden Admin. will take the full cues, but at least (I sure hope) policy direction is serious and scholarly.  Grown ups.  

Harris’ trip is a political trip. Her speaking points are political. The other team’s criticism is political.  None of it really impacts long term policy.

Ill go back and finish reading the link, but it just had a solid direction as far as I read. 

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1 minute ago, soupslam1 said:

Have we ever been serious about it? 

Different folks will have different answers depending on who's in office when you ask that question. Immigration is an easy talking point to get your base fired up every 4 years... why risk actually solving the issue?

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