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PAC 12 new Commissioner - MGM's George Kliavkoff

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3 minutes ago, Someone said:

the PAC 12 currently pays out $32.2 million per team per year

the Big 12 currently pays out $37.7 so $5.5 million more per team and that is exclusive of any 3rd tier rights for the Big 12 while inclusive of that for the PAC 12

Yup, and that puts SDSU at No. 1. Just didn't want to be too biased in my original post. :D

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13 minutes ago, utenation said:

That’s what I thought genius 

I don’t even know what you’re saying here. There’s plenty of posts in all of these threads showing tweets and articles that mention UNLV. I thought the whole realignment conversation had been proven to be a little overblown but nonetheless when the fire started smoldering on social media, the name UNLV has been brought up by people not associated with UNLV. Dude, do you ask the guy next to you in the stall for a hand? You seem to ask for a lot of help figuring these things out. It’s like you’re trying to establish some kind of gotcha fallacy but it never pans out for you. 

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7 minutes ago, Someone said:

the person that wrote that article does not understand basic math with the exception of talking about Texas

the PAC 12 currently pays out $32.2 million per team per year

the Big 12 currently pays out $37.7 so $5.5 million more per team and that is exclusive of any 3rd tier rights for the Big 12 while inclusive of that for the PAC 12

so if you are going to pick teams from the Big 12 then to even break even for those Big 12 teams you need to be paying $5.5 million more to 12 other current PAC 12 members or $66 million more per year.....and again that is exclusive of 3rd tier money for the Big 12 members with OU getting about $7 and other Big 12 members not Texas getting from $1 to $5 million (Kansas being up there)

it makes no financial sense to pull teams from a smaller conference making more money and adding them to a larger conference making less money because the cost to elevate the teams making less money is much greater

plus OU and Texas Tech and Kansas are not stupid they know the financials of the PAC 12 members they understand the largest academic side subsidy in the Big 12 is $3.9 million form WVU followed by Tech with $3.5 then Iowa State $2, Kansas $1.7, OkState $87,000 and KSU, Texas and OU ZERO

while in the PAC 12 it is $21 million AU, $19 million ASU, $12.5 Utah, $12.2 CU, $11.8 Oregon State, $5 WSU, $4.15 Washington, $2.57 UCLA, and $450,000 Oregon, Cal "zero"

plus every Big 12 program had revenues that are higher than expenses

in the PAC 12 WITH THOSE SUBSIDIES Oregon had expenses $1.4 million over revenues, UCLA $19 million, CU $3.5 million, Cal $19 million, Oregon State $300,000, WSU $4.5 million

then there is the debt......with the exception of Texas and Texas Tech the Big 12 has a very low per team debt load and even Tech has paid theirs down significantly and is paying cash for all new facilities.....Texas does what Texas does.......the PAC 12 starting with Cal has a very high debt load, but so do a number of others

and as pointed out 6 of the 15 lowest P5 budgets are in the PAC 12 and that is including those subsidies and excluding the deficit spending after those subsidies.....plus you have to count in the higher debt service

lastly exclusive of the Big 12 GOR (that has no exit fee attached to it by design) there is a 99 year conference membership contract for the Big 12 that was signed in 2012

that contract for conference membership calls for an exit fee of an amount equal to the prior two years of distributions by the conference which at the end of the GOR would be about $42 million per year

8 of the current Big 12 members have gone to court on 2 separate occasions to enforce a similar contract against 4 former conference members (Nebraska and CU then A&M and MU) and while they did not collect the full amounts they did collect more than half of it each time and two other members WVU and TCU have paid under similar contracts)......and of course the last time was Maryland paying about $36 million of a $50 million contractual fee to leave the ACC......with Maryland saying they were not in agreement because they voted against the increase of the fee from $25 million to the $50 million......Maryland was also not a part of any GOR because the ACC did not have one in place prior to Maryland giving notice.....but the ACC did have a contract with a $50 million exit fee similar to the Big 12 contract (exclusive of any GOR) that calls for an exit fee of two prior years worth of distribution.....and of course as pointed out the Big 12 and others have successfully defended those

so you are probably looking at any Big 12 member that tries to leave giving up at least $42 million to do so......which just adds more to the cost of trying to move a team already making more money in their current smaller conference to a larger conference making less money

when one looks at the facts and the reality there seems to be no reason any Big 12 member would take a $42 million + dollar hit to move to a conference with lower budgets, much higher academic side subsidies, much higher annual deficits exclusive of those academic subsidies, and higher debt loads......and it seems to make no sense that any network would want to pay up the required money to make that happen

all the more so when the actual reason that OU and OkState DECLINED TO BE INVITED TO THE PAC 12 was because they realized they were going to make more money in the Big 12 every year even if Texas had the LHN and still made even more money......and so far every member of the Big 12 has made significantly more money in the Big 12 year after year then the PAC 12 members have made and that is exclusive of counting any Big 12 3rd tier money while is is inclusive of all PAC 12 dollars

This is not how you MWCBoard. TLDR

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1 hour ago, KayakArmada said:

And yet how much does it rustle your jimmies to know UNLV is in all of these of expansion conversations and SJSU has been relegated to mid-major purgatory for eternity?

Doesn’t rustle my jimmies in the slightest.  SJSU is concentrating on winning right where they are, the MWC.  Making a big push at that these days.  

UNLV should try that. Maybe you all would be happier instead of dreaming of things that will not happen.  Focus on where you are in the moment and the future will make itself happen.

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Vegas is similar to San Diego in that both cities rightfully think they are too good for the mountain west.  In the Pac-12 the fans would come out of the woodwork.  The two most trophy destinations in the west just waiting to be scooped up...it makes too much sense.  

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18 minutes ago, KayakArmada said:

I don’t even know what you’re saying here. There’s plenty of posts in all of these threads showing tweets and articles that mention UNLV. I thought the whole realignment conversation had been proven to be a little overblown but nonetheless when the fire started smoldering on social media, the name UNLV has been brought up by people not associated with UNLV. Dude, do you ask the guy next to you in the stall for a hand? You seem to ask for a lot of help figuring these things out. It’s like you’re trying to establish some kind of gotcha fallacy but it never pans out for you. 

Interesting there’s no rumors coming out of the P12..

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2 minutes ago, AztecMD said:

Vegas is similar to San Diego in that both cities rightfully think they are too good for the mountain west.  In the Pac-12 the fans would come out of the woodwork.  The two most trophy destinations in the west just waiting to be scooped up...it makes too much sense.  

Yup. Regardless of what the they think of themselves, San Diego and Las Vegas are the two largest remaining markets (with two of the newest stadiums) west of the Rockies AND are great travel destinations for fans.

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1 hour ago, AztecMD said:

Vegas is similar to San Diego in that both cities rightfully think they are too good for the mountain west.  In the Pac-12 the fans would come out of the woodwork.  The two most trophy destinations in the west just waiting to be scooped up...it makes too much sense.  

Same would happen at SJSU, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii, etc...most any MWC school. We all play in the shadow of the Pac12. Let us into the Pac12 and the P5 money and it would transform any of our athletic departments and fan bases.
 

The biggest reason that SJSU doesn’t draw like Cal and Stanford is we are not in the Pac12. We are not playing in the best conference in the west.  That’s just reality here locally.  So our challenge is to sell SJSU vs UNLV like it’s Cal vs USC. That’s tough but it’s just reality. If SJSU had been in the old PAC 8, then it would be an entirely different program today. It would be on the same level with Cal amongst the local spectators.
 

The problem is the Pac12 is not going to let any of us in. We need to focus on growing the MWC instead of chasing pipe dreams.  The Big12 maybe, the Pac12 never. 

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3 minutes ago, Old_Sparty1857 said:

Same would happen at SJSU, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii, etc...most any MWC school. We all play in the shadow of the Pac12. Let us into the Pac12 and the P5 money and it would transform any of our athletic departments. 
 

The problem is the Pac12 is not going to let any of us in. We need to focus in growing the MWC instead of chasing pipe dreams. 

LOL.  Speak for yourself.  You guys are like 12th fiddle in your market and you already have two D1 football teams a stones throw away.  It’s smart that you are focused on winning in the MWC because you are lucky to be in D1 let alone get invited to a P5 conference.  If the Pac-12 expands by 2 or 4 teams I really like SDSU odds as there are very few other programs out there that make financial sense.  

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9 minutes ago, AztecMD said:

Vegas is similar to San Diego in that both cities rightfully think they are too good for the mountain west.  In the Pac-12 the fans would come out of the woodwork.  The two most trophy destinations in the west just waiting to be scooped up...it makes too much sense.  

SDSU will never be in the Pac12 for the same reasons SJSU will never be in the Pac12.  We missed our chance when we missed out on the old PAC 8 back in the day.  Also, the Pac12 already has all the SoCal market with USC and UCLA.  The Pac12 already has the LV market also.  Why share money with UNLV? Not gonna happen in the Pac12 guys. 
 

Btw, was just recently in downtown SD and was shocked at how scary it is these days. It was not looking good. 

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7 minutes ago, AztecMD said:

LOL.  Speak for yourself.  You guys are like 12th fiddle in your market and you already have two D1 football teams a stones throw away.  It’s smart that you are focused on winning in the MWC because you are lucky to be in D1 let alone get invited to a P5 conference.  If the Pac-12 expands by 2 or 4 teams I really like SDSU odds as there are very few other programs out there that make financial sense.  

Never going to happen.  They will never let a CSU into the Pac12.  Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and USC will never let us in.  
 

One of the biggest reasons is our lower academic profiles would allow us to recruit like crazy if we were in the Pac12. We’d be pulling in top kids that wouldn’t qualify to get into those schools, making it hard for them to compete against us. 

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13 minutes ago, Old_Sparty1857 said:

Same would happen at SJSU, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii, etc...most any MWC school. We all play in the shadow of the Pac12. Let us into the Pac12 and the P5 money and it would transform any of our athletic departments. 
 

The problem is the Pac12 is not going to let any of us in. We need to focus in growing the MWC instead of chasing pipe dreams. 

I'm good with a just a West Conference. The Mountain Division isn't really bringing anything to the table wrt markets, and Boise State is a diva. 

Well, maybe keep New Mexico because the food in Albuquerque is great. 6 conference games and 6 compelling out of conference games (rather than deal with CSU, USU, Wyo, AFA) would be ideal to me. 

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5 minutes ago, AztecMD said:

LOL.  Speak for yourself.  You guys are like 12th fiddle in your market and you already have two D1 football teams a stones throw away.  It’s smart that you are focused on winning in the MWC because you are lucky to be in D1 let alone get invited to a P5 conference.  If the Pac-12 expands by 2 or 4 teams I really like SDSU odds as there are very few other programs out there that make financial sense.  

The only two teams they can add that would make any sense are UNLV and San Diego State.  They’ve tried getting Texas and Oklahoma, but they’re not interested.  BYU wouldn’t make any sense because they don’t fit culturally.  Boise State is never getting in because their academics are a non starter.

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Just now, ph90702 said:

The only two teams they can add that would make any sense are UNLV and San Diego State.  They’ve tried getting Texas and Oklahoma, but they’re not interested.  BYU wouldn’t make any sense because they don’t fit culturally.  Boise State is never getting in because their academics are a non starter.

BYU is actually the most logical choice; they are really a P5 school in all but name - but it won't happen because *reasons*. 

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4 minutes ago, Koji Vu said:

I'm good with a just a West Conference. The Mountain Division isn't really bringing anything to the table wrt markets, and Boise State is a diva. 

Well, maybe keep New Mexico because the food in Albuquerque is great. 6 conference games and 6 out of compelling conference games (rather than deal with CSU, USU, Wyo, AFA) would be ideal to me. 

This

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13 minutes ago, ph90702 said:

The only two teams they can add that would make any sense are UNLV and San Diego State.  They’ve tried getting Texas and Oklahoma, but they’re not interested.  BYU wouldn’t make any sense because they don’t fit culturally.  Boise State is never getting in because their academics are a non starter.

Why expand at all?  You don’t have anything they need or don’t already have.  Read the post the guy from the Big12 wrote earlier.  Why would they split more money with others for no reason.  The Pac12 already has your TV markets. 
 

I hate to say it guys but nobody in the Pac12 is sitting around saying....if we could just get SDSU....if we could just get UNLV....we’d be Golden.  Focus on building up the MWC.  Let’s try and make our own money. 
 

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7 minutes ago, ph90702 said:

The only two teams they can add that would make any sense are UNLV and San Diego State.  They’ve tried getting Texas and Oklahoma, but they’re not interested.  BYU wouldn’t make any sense because they don’t fit culturally.  Boise State is never getting in because their academics are a non starter.

Yep.  Texas is not coming west and even Oklahoma and Oklahoma state couldn’t get a return call from the Pac on their own. IMO if the Pac expands SDSU and UNLV are on the very short list as there is no one else interested that makes financial sense. 

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3 minutes ago, Old_Sparty1857 said:

Why expand at all?  You don’t have anything they need or don’t already have.  Read the post the guy from the Big12 wrote earlier.  Why would they split more money with others for no reason. 
 

I hate to say it guys but nobody in the Pac12 is sitting around saying....if we could just get SDSU....if we could just get UNLV....we’d be Golden. 
 

This has always been my question. Why dilute the TV money? The Big 12 chose to stay put rather than dilute theirs.

That said, who knows what these P5 conferences are really thinking, and perhaps their calculus is different than ours. 

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2 minutes ago, Koji Vu said:

This has always been my question. Why dilute the TV money? The Big 12 chose to stay put rather than dilute theirs.

That said, who knows what these P5 conferences are really thinking, and perhaps their calculus is different than ours. 

They are thinking they may reshuffle the deck with the schools already in the club, but not looking to ad new members, especially out west. 

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Control of markets becomes less important as cable dies out as there will no longer be the ability to hold an entire region hostage for a few bucks per subscriber in order to provide games on a network.  As cord cutting goes away it’s individual eyeballs that are important and San Diego county has more eyeballs than the states of Utah, Kansas, New Mexico, Nevada and Oklahoma.  

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