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Headbutt

How does the G5 move forward?

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First of all, there will be no P6, end of story.  Maybe a P4.  In the end, while there is a very outside shot for one or two G5 teams to move into the upper echelon in the next round of realignment and potential playoff expansion, the rest of us will remain seated at the kiddie table.  I don't think there's any getting around that.

So, now what?  Ever since P5 autonomy became official the G5 has been hanging around in CFB purgatory.  Hanging on to the P5 scraps but maintaining our superiority to FCS.  At some point the G5 has to stop allowing power brokers from conferences that we're not even associated with to determine our future.

What's everyone's opinion on how the G5 conferences should proceed.  Legal action?  A complete breakaway?  Status quo?

Serious question, no AAC delusion please.

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19 hours ago, Headbutt said:

First of all, there will be no P6, end of story.  Maybe a P4.  In the end, while there is a very outside shot for one or two G5 teams to move into the upper echelon in the next round of realignment and potential playoff expansion, the rest of us will remain seated at the kiddie table.  I don't think there's any getting around that.

So, now what?  Ever since P5 autonomy became official the G5 has been hanging around in CFB purgatory.  Hanging on to the P5 scraps but maintaining our superiority to FCS.  At some point the G5 has to stop allowing power brokers from conferences that we're not even associated with to determine our future.

What's everyone's opinion on how the G5 conferences should proceed.  Legal action?  A complete breakaway?  Status quo?

Serious question, no AAC delusion please.

 If we stay w them, we know we'll always get the scraps, if any. I am skeptical of legal proceedings being successful, so I say complete breakaway. Could we create an AFL vs NFL type of situation? The problem is the Elites have the most $$$ and are able to get most of the best athletes. I think we need to find a couple of  Lamar Hunt and Al Davis types to lead us out of the darkness! 

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15 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

it'd probably be best if the G5 broke away completely and stopped playing the P5 schools altogether.  but that's just laughably impossible.

It would probably hurt financially for a few years if this happened, but once you got out on your own without depending on money games and stuff I could see if being profitable for the schools. But, long term G5 schools would need to reign in their spending, as I'm not sure there's big money available for them from a model without money games. 

Most G5 schools are subsidized by the public, and even many P5 ones are, so who knows how feasible it is long term financially.

It's just ridiculous that Rutgers and Vanderbilt are in P5 and multiple G5 schools are fighting for scraps.

I think a relegation model should be used and you should be able to earn your way in by performance, but CFB has never been about performance.

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:


I think a relegation model should be used and you should be able to earn your way in by performance, but CFB has never been about performance.

I can completely get behind this idea. If college football breaks away from the ncaa - and it should - then it most resembles European soccer in terms of competition. Perennial championship contenders, perennial bottom feeders, and a huge middle class of teams capable of making historic runs once in awhile. There are no rules designed to maintain parity or fairness. Each team is left to its own devices in terms of accumulating and utilizing resources. So ultimately, things will more or less fall where they should. Your Boise states and UCFs will get their shots at the big boys and the teams content in the lower division will stop making a show of competing with the top teams. 

I feel I must stress, however, that this will never happen.

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32 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

it'd probably be best if the G5 broke away completely and stopped playing the P5 schools altogether.  but that's just laughably impossible.

I could support a complete breakaway, but only if it's fully funded.  As in a solid long term TV contract with Fox and/or CBS.  ESPN has demonstrated that their support of the G5 would be minimal and used only as filler in weaker time slots (weeknights, late nights, etc.).  Without a committed TV partner a separate G5 league would be underfunded and force a lot of G5 to go FCS.  Just the opposite of the desired result.

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23 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

I could support a complete breakaway, but only if it's fully funded.  As in a solid long term TV contract with Fox and/or CBS.  ESPN has demonstrated that their support of the G5 would be minimal and used only as filler in weaker time slots (weeknights, late nights, etc.).  Without a committed TV partner a separate G5 league would be underfunded and force a lot of G5 to go FCS.  Just the opposite of the desired result.

i wish it could be, but do you think the money and eyeballs are there?  i'm skeptical.

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Guest #1Stunner
23 hours ago, Headbutt said:

First of all, there will be no P6, end of story.  Maybe a P4.  In the end, while there is a very outside shot for one or two G5 teams to move into the upper echelon in the next round of realignment and potential playoff expansion, the rest of us will remain seated at the kiddie table.  I don't think there's any getting around that.

So, now what?  Ever since P5 autonomy became official the G5 has been hanging around in CFB purgatory.  Hanging on to the P5 scraps but maintaining our superiority to FCS.  At some point the G5 has to stop allowing power brokers from conferences that we're not even associated with to determine our future.

What's everyone's opinion on how the G5 conferences should proceed.  Legal action?  A complete breakaway?  Status quo?

Serious question, no AAC delusion please.

The G5 is a Football label thrown in a bunch of schools that aren't necessarily similar.  Obviously, G5 doesn't apply to non-football.

The clear picture is that there is an upper and lower tier G5.  The upper tier right now is the AAC, and somewhat the MWC.   A few Indys, like Liberty are also moving up.   Lower tier is everyone else.

The Trend will be for these upper G5 conferences to grow.  They may need to dump dead weight that won't spend money on new facilities, or that are in terrible markets, in favor of schools that have more upside.

 

Schools that are trending up in facilities and spending:

Liberty

North Texas

Texas State

???

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15 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

i wish it could be, but do you think the money and eyeballs are there?  i'm skeptical.

Definitely not P5 eyeballs.  I do believe the G5 schools would have a lot more eyeballs if shown in better timeslots and marketed better.  I disagree with Stunner that the upper tier is AAC and some of the MWC.  The two are pretty comparable, and the MWC has been better in the post season.  Aresco has run circles around Hair when it comes to marketing.

My short answer is no, the money and eyeballs aren't there, but would be with better marketing.

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3 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

Definitely not P5 eyeballs.  I do believe the G5 schools would have a lot more eyeballs if shown in better timeslots and marketed better.  I disagree with Stunner that the upper tier is AAC and some of the MWC.  The two are pretty comparable, and the MWC has been better in the post season.  Aresco has run circles around Hair when it comes to marketing.

My short answer is no, the money and eyeballs aren't there, but would be with better marketing.

Post season of what sport, sorry?

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I don't see how any scenario with G5 schools separating helps generate more revenue.  Right now,  the P5 schools getter better players than G5.  G5 gets better players than FCS.  If some sort of different division is created for G5 to award a champion, the better players are still going to go to P5 schools.  The only fix that is needed in the system is to go to 8 teams in the playoffs and guarantee 1 team gets a chance to get fed to the wolves in the first round of the playoff.  That will keep the big boys happy with 7 of the 8 slots, and the G5 teams get a 1/64 chance at a golden ticket.  Now if cable television and the ESPNs of the world could make more money with a new league and championship game, that would be different.  But we all know they can't.  All things considered, until the P5 teams stop playing G5 teams, there is zero incentive to break away.  

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Just now, Did I hear a WOOSH? said:

Post season of what sport, sorry?

G5 only applies in football.  The artificial barrier exists in BB as well, but is not as prevalent or blatant.  YET.

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I wouldn’t consider breaking off until after the next round of realignment.  I think that we’re going to see an 8 team playoff (top 6 conferences and two at-large teams), that would stem the tide and guarantee access for the g5 teams.  If anyone breaks off it’ll be the ‘power’ programs.  I could see forming a 4-conference super league where each conference has 16 teams.  There could be aspects of relegation within each conference. Just a hunch.

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1 hour ago, AndroidAggie said:

it'd probably be best if the G5 broke away completely and stopped playing the P5 schools altogether.  but that's just laughably impossible.

I think this would be a huge mistake. The last thing the G5 needs is more separation from the P5. They need games against P5 to show relevance and worth.  Otherwise, they will never be in the comparison conversation.  P5 teams can play FCS teams for OOC and then their conference slate and be just fine in the eyes of the brass. G5 would turn into dust on the national level..

 

 

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Playoff expansion with guarantee of at least one G5 school will tip the balance of power quite a bit as it will mean
1. Players have a better chance of getting into the playoffs if they sign up with an upper tier G5 school (rather than a lower tier P5 school),
2. BYU (and other independents) will be racing to get into the AAC or MWC so they have a shot at a playoff, and
3. FANS will be more interested in their G5 school and, in the end, fan interest drives everything else including TV deals, attendance, and merchandise sales. 

And again, everybody here should be pimping "Top 6 rated champs" instead of giving auto-bids to underperforming P5 conferences (like the Pac 12). 

As for how the G5 should move forward? Convince the P5 that it is in their best interest to give G5 a seat at the table as it will help increase overall interest in the sport - that has been flailing under the current playoff system. Pac 12 is dying, for example. 

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2 minutes ago, utenation said:

I think this would be a huge mistake. The last thing the G5 needs is more separation from the P5. They need games against P5 to show relevance and worth.  Otherwise, they will never be in the comparison conversation.  P5 teams can play FCS teams for OOC and then their conference slate and be just fine in the eyes of the brass. G5 would turn into dust on the national level..

 

 

 

This.  Breaking away does nothing for the G5.

 

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1 minute ago, utenation said:

I think this would be a huge mistake. The last thing the G5 needs is more separation from the P5. They need games against P5 to show relevance and worth.  Otherwise, they will never be in the comparison conversation.  P5 teams can play FCS teams for OOC and then their conference slate and be just fine in the eyes of the brass. G5 would turn into dust on the national level..

I think history would show that games between the P5 and G5 win out in the P5's favor.  Win and it's a fluke.  Lose and it's confirmation you're a step or two behind.  We've been playing the P5 for as long as the notion of P5 has existed, irrespective of its label, and there is no upward mobility.  There's nothing to be gained, other than the body bag game money, by playing P5 schools.  I don't think any G5 has their long term fan interest bolstered by harmed by playing P5 schools with the sole exception of the handful of programs that have a sniff at the NY6 play in game.  And even that is like having the tall kid on the playground hold your lunch money over your head and raise it juuuuuuust out of reach as you leap to get it.

The G5 is what it is, and no amount of UCF or BSU runs at national notoriety will change it.  I'd rather just pay attention to my own conference and conference peers and quit wringing my hands and hoping for a cinderella story each year.

Either do @Jack Bauer's relegation model or don't do anything at all.

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