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Columbus Police fatally shoot a 15-year-old black girl

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6 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

The sad truth is there are going to be more of these types of shootings, some justified, some not. 

Yes, the police will kill more black people. Thanks for breaking that news.

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1 hour ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Yes, the police will kill more black people. Thanks for breaking that news.

Because police only kill black people. :blink:

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7 minutes ago, Slapdad said:

Because police only kill black people. :blink:

Do you know what odds are? I assume you've gambled before. 

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17 hours ago, sactowndog said:

Actually not true at all.  First one problem is officers aren’t well trained to handle mental health issues so a large portion of officer involved shootings deal with mental health crises.  

https://abc11.com/feature/mental-health-policing-officer-involved-shooting-i-team/10534981/

But where police forces have put in special constructed teams they have seen better results.....

https://southernmarylandchronicle.com/2021/04/06/charles-sheriff-officers-talk-man-down-carrying-a-chainsaw-and-knives-1/
 

Given the repeated statement by those on the right the our gun problem is a mental health issue it seems odd when localities move to address it they oppose that also.   

A couple examples of how the citizenry which cops deal with has significantly changed over the last several decades:

More and more people living in urban areas where they are bunched together means greater collective stress. Development and widening use of meth means more substance abusers not just harming themselves physically but going out of their minds.*

I could go on but the point is you're absolutely correct that the old ways of training cops are insufficient to properly prepare them for handling modern society. Somebody advocated creation of mental health response units within law enforcement the same as they've long had SWAT units. I'd never thought of that but it sounds like a great idea to me.

https://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/crystalmeth/history-of-methamphetamine.html Btw, that article does not mention that the Nazi government provided meth to German soldiers in WWII and it's now accepted that part of their success was the ability to sometimes go days without sleeping during major battles. (Sorry if I sometimes sound like I'm preaching about the evils of meth but that shit is really, really bad and IMO, however one feels about legalization of drugs, it would be disastrous to so with that one.)

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7 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

A couple examples of how the citizenry which cops deal with has significantly changed over the last several decades:

More and more people living in urban areas where they are bunched together means greater collective stress. Development and widening use of meth means more substance abusers not just harming themselves physically but going out of their minds.*

I could go on but the point is you're absolutely correct that the old ways of training cops are insufficient to properly prepare them for handling modern society. Somebody advocated creation of mental health response units within law enforcement the same as they've long had SWAT units. I'd never thought of that but it sounds like a great idea to me.

https://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/crystalmeth/history-of-methamphetamine.html Btw, that article does not mention that the Nazi government provided meth to German soldiers in WWII and it's now accepted that part of their success was the ability to sometimes go days without sleeping during major battles. (Sorry if I sometimes sound like I'm preaching about the evils of meth but that shit is really, really bad and IMO, however one feels about legalization of drugs, it would be disastrous to so with that one.)

How does an unarmed mental health worker deal with an armed insane person? Or an armed person strung out on meth? 

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Just now, soupslam1 said:

How does an unarmed mental health worker deal with an armed insane person? Or an armed person strung out on meth? 

1 armed cop, 1 mental health worker arriving at the scene together?   Or a trained social worker who also happens to be armed police?  

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9 minutes ago, madmartigan said:

Here’s another chart that correlates well with the above chart, especially those committing murders and violent crime. 

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

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16 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

Do you know what odds are? I assume you've gambled before. 

Do you know that the odds go up along with the rate at which a subset of the population commit crimes? To bring up the odds of the end result without factoring in the rate at which people put themselves in a situation where that result is much more likely isn't a very sound argument. I have gambled before and I know that if I don't sit down at a blackjack table, the odds of me losing money are very, very low. 

 

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31 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

Do you know what odds are? I assume you've gambled before. 

Based on 2019, the odds are for the next police shooting by race are roughly

29.8% White 10 to 3

20.1% Black 5 to 1

14.3% Hispanic 50 to 7

10.2% Unknown 10 to 1

4% Other 25 to 1

 

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22 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

1 armed cop, 1 mental health worker arriving at the scene together?   Or a trained social worker who also happens to be armed police?  

That may be the case when dealing with mental people, but the big majority of police shootings are routine traffic stops or sane people committing crimes. Or sane people violently resisting arrest. So are we going to expand the police force with ride along social workers? 

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#:~:text=According to the FBI%2C African,3.1% were of other races.

Most of the issue is young, Black and Hispanic males are very overrepresented in committing violent crimes, as a percentage of the population.

Again, younger people are more likely to avoid a life of crime if they have a stable environment at home.   

Not sure how to fix the situation.

 

Crime statistics

Scholars have found that some racial and ethnic minorities, particularly African-Americans, are disproportionately represented in the arrest and victimization reports which are used to compile crime rate statistics in the United States. The data from 2008 reveals that black Americans are over-represented in terms of arrests made in virtually all types of crime, with the exceptions of "driving under the influence," "liquor laws," and hate crime. Overall, black Americans are arrested at 2.6 times the per-capita rate of all other Americans, and this ratio is even higher for murder (6.3 times) and robbery (8.1 times).[48][49]

 

Homicide

According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other"/Unknown 3.0% in cases where the race was known.[52] Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races.[53][54] The per-capita offending rate for African-Americans was roughly six times higher than that of whites, and the victim rate is a similar figure. Most homicides were intraracial; where the perpetrator's race was known, 81% of white victims were killed by whites and 91% of black or African-American victims were killed by African-Americans.[54

Assault

The CDC keeps data  data on non-fatal injury emergency department visits and the race of victims.[55] While non-Hispanic white victims account for approximately half of total non-fatal assault injuries, most of which did not involve any weapon, black and Hispanic victims account for the vast majority of non-fatal firearm injuries. There was a total of 17.3 million emergency department visits or hospitalizations for non-fatal assaults in the United States in the 10-year period between 2007–2016. For non-fatal assaults with recorded race, 6.5 million victims were white non-Hispanic, 4.3 million black, 2.3 million Hispanic and 0.4 million other (non-Hispanic) and for 3.8 million, the race was not recorded. There were a total of 603,000 emergency department visits in the US for non-fatal firearm assaults in the 10-year period between 2007–2016. For non-fatal firearm assaults with recorded race, 77,000 victims were white non-Hispanic, 261,000 were black and 94,000 were Hispanic, 8,500 were other non-Hispanic and for 162,000 the race was not recorded. Despite gun injuries only accounting for about 3.5% of serious assault injuries between 2007 and 2016, they accounted for nearly 70% of overall homicides.[56]

While African Americans are highly overrepresented in murders and gun assaults, the disparity in arrests is small for the most common form of assault not involving any weapon or serious injury (non-aggravated assault). Hispanics and non-Hispanic whites are arrested for non-aggravated assault in a similar ratio to their share of the US population. Of the 9,468 murder arrests in the US in 2017, 53.5% were black and 20.8% Hispanic. Of the 822,671 arrests for non-aggravated assault, 31.4% were black and 18.4% Hispanic.[57]

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2008, black youths, who make up 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58.5% of youth arrests for homicide and 67% for robbery. Black youths were overrepresented in all offense categories except DUI, liquor laws, and drunkenness. Racial disparities in arrest have consistently been far less among older population groups.[58]

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3 minutes ago, Slapdad said:

Do you know that the odds go up along with the rate at which a subset of the population commit crimes? To bring up the odds of the end result without factoring in the rate at which people put themselves in a situation where that result is much more likely isn't a very sound argument. I have gambled before and I know that if I don't sit down at a blackjack table, the odds of me losing money are very, very low. 

 

This ^^^

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9 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

That may be the case when dealing with mental people, but the big majority of police shootings are routine traffic stops or sane people committing crimes. Or sane people violently resisting arrest. So are we going to expand the police force with ride along social workers? 

No, and I don't think it would be logical to advocate for that.  Denver has done a pilot program for this scenario and it is based on the call in for services, not traffic violations.  They have had success with it.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/02/06/denver-sent-mental-health-help-not-police-hundreds-calls/4421364001/

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3 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#:~:text=According to the FBI%2C African,3.1% were of other races.

Most of the issue is young, Black and Hispanic males are very overrepresented in committing violent crimes, as a percentage of the population.

Again, younger people are more likely to avoid a life of crime if they have a stable environment at home.   

Not sure how to fix the situation.

 

 

 

This is the single biggest factor in all of this, IMO. And I agree that it is a tough situation to remedy. I think that the Black Panthers were on the right path back in the 60's and 70's. They took a very proactive approach and had the attitude that the only people that would help them is them, so they had a very tight knit community that would make sure that their kids got the education they needed, supported their fellow black community (the "It takes a village" approach), which is what you saw with other subsets of the population (Jews, Mormons, Italians, etc.). 

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Just now, Slapdad said:

This is the single biggest factor in all of this, IMO. And I agree that it is a tough situation to remedy. I think that the Black Panthers were on the right path back in the 60's and 70's. They took a very proactive approach and had the attitude that the only people that would help them is them, so they had a very tight knit community that would make sure that their kids got the education they needed, supported their fellow black community (the "It takes a village" approach), which is what you saw with other subsets of the population (Jews, Mormons, Italians, etc.). 

Agreed. The Panthers were some of the greatest Americans who ever lived. It was a great strategy as well. Ultimately it was undermined by outside forces, but the heart/mind was in the right place.

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Just now, Slapdad said:

This is the single biggest factor in all of this, IMO. And I agree that it is a tough situation to remedy. I think that the Black Panthers were on the right path back in the 60's and 70's. They took a very proactive approach and had the attitude that the only people that would help them is them, so they had a very tight knit community that would make sure that their kids got the education they needed, supported their fellow black community (the "It takes a village" approach), which is what you saw with other subsets of the population (Jews, Mormons, Italians, etc.). 

And then what happened?  American government didn't like those uppity negroes empowering themselves one bit.  

So, the American people have to force their hand, and the laws, and the investment to rebuild what has been destroyed (stability, not buildings), and to recreate a safe nucleus for jobs and communities to prosper.  We all need to stop playing sides, and working on it as a collective.  Media and the politicians don't want that though.

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32 minutes ago, Slapdad said:

Do you know that the odds go up along with the rate at which a subset of the population commit crimes? To bring up the odds of the end result without factoring in the rate at which people put themselves in a situation where that result is much more likely isn't a very sound argument. I have gambled before and I know that if I don't sit down at a blackjack table, the odds of me losing money are very, very low. 

 

in 2019, per FBI crime stats, white people were arrested for 70% of all crimes. Murders as a % of crime  or even just violemt crime is rather small. https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selYrs=2019&rdoGroups=1&rdoData=c

This doesn't even touch on all the unsolved violent crimes or the reality that uneven policing results in uneven arrests. 

image.png.7ba808908fd98555f8219f10ec95670f.png

 

 

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