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After the testimony of the last few days, and especially the medical and toxicology experts today I have changed my mind.

The murder chargers, at least one, will stick.  Clearly not an overdose.  No signs of excited delirium

Buh bye Derek.  Cops don't do well in prison.

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Yeah seriously...night night, keep your butthole tight at this point.

I feel the same as you. Unless the Defense has some huge trump card to play, dude's going to get one of those lesser murder charges to stick (at least) on top of a surefire manslaughter conviction and getting sent upstate for a good long time. Hopefully for good.

That said, they're anticipating craziness here I can tell. There's cops everywhere right now. Like I went 3 months without seeing maybe 2-3 cops, and now, they're all over the place. Every BART train has had a cop on it the last week. So, honestly, just for selfish reasons alone, I hope they make the charges stick.

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I’ve listened to quite a bit of the testimony so far. The pulmonary doctor’s testimony today (Tobin) was flat out devastating to the defense. That dude reeeeaaalllyyy knew his shet, but perhaps most importantly, spoke in layman’s terms that the jury could readily understand.  Reduced it to lungs and breathing in a simplistic, yet still highly technical way.  The use of (simple) graphics was exceptionally well done, too.  He even called Floyd’s death (last breath) within a few seconds IOC the timeline (the last extension of his leg). This occurred more than three (3!) minutes before Chauvin even let up...
 

People are already saying that this guy’s exceptional testimony will revolutionize the way police will have to approach using this type of force in the future (that’s not stay pinning someone’s body and neck down in a prone position for nine and a half minutes, mind you, rather any force that requires the prone position to be utilized)...
 

I already know chauvin is guilty, but if I had any doubt I would not after today. Tobin blew out of the water the drug usage angle, too, which I’m pretty sure will cripple a significant part of the defense that they were heavily relying on...

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Good. That fvcking creep deserves all he gets in the prison shower. I hope it hurts. 

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5 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

Yeah seriously...night night, keep your butthole tight at this point.

I feel the same as you. Unless the Defense has some huge trump card to play, dude's going to get one of those lesser murder charges to stick (at least) on top of a surefire manslaughter conviction and getting sent upstate for a good long time. Hopefully for good.

That said, they're anticipating craziness here I can tell. There's cops everywhere right now. Like I went 3 months without seeing maybe 2-3 cops, and now, they're all over the place. Every BART train has had a cop on it the last week. So, honestly, just for selfish reasons alone, I hope they make the charges stick.

The defense still has their shot.  I have heard there are training videos that show the very same techniques the PD expert testified were not taught.  Supposedly, the defense has expert witnesses of their own who may cast doubt on prosecution's case.  The defense only has to convince one juror there is reasonable doubt.  

Who knows how this will work out?  Chavin is pretty well phucked even if by some miracle, he walks.  But then again, he might get a book deal.

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7 minutes ago, sjsbuff said:

I’ve listened to quite a bit of the testimony so far. The pulmonary doctor’s testimony today (Tobin) was flat out devastating to the defense. That dude reeeeaaalllyyy knew his shet, but perhaps most importantly, spoke in layman’s terms that the jury could readily understand.  Reduced it to lungs and breathing in a simplistic, yet still highly technical way.  The use of (simple) graphics was exceptionally well done, too. I already know chauvin is guilty, but if I had any doubt I would not after today. Tobin blew out of the water the drug usage angle, too, which I’m pretty sure will blow up a good part of the defense that they were heavily relying on...

 

Yeah, today was the nail in the coffin for the defense.  Just brutal.  Last few days were not good but it was always going to come down to today's testimony.  
 

 

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7 minutes ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

The defense still has their shot.  I have heard there are training videos that show the very same techniques the PD expert testified were not taught.  Supposedly, the defense has expert witnesses of their own who may cast doubt on prosecution's case.  The defense only has to convince one juror there is reasonable doubt.  

Who knows how this will work out?  Chavin is pretty well phucked even if by some miracle, he walks.  But then again, he might get a book deal.

Training videos don’t matter. Chauvin had his knee on Floyd’s neck 3 minutes after a preeminent expert said that he died (stopped breathing).  Tobin said the drugs were irrelevant and didn’t change his breathing patterns, among other things.  Also, that a healthy person would’ve died under the same circumstances. 
 

Honestly, I can’t fathom all of that will play well with any jury member...

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2 minutes ago, sjsbuff said:

Training videos don’t matter. Chauvin had his knee on Floyd’s neck 3 minutes after a preeminent expert said that he died (stopped breathing).  Tobin said the drugs were irrelevant and didn’t change his breathing patterns, among other things.  I can’t fathom that will play well with any jury member...

 

This.  The testimony (still going on with Dr. Smock) makes it pretty clear it was the actions of Chauvin that killed him.  

 

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8 minutes ago, sjsbuff said:

Training videos don’t matter. Chauvin had his knee on Floyd’s neck 3 minutes after a preeminent expert said that he died (stopped breathing).  Tobin said the drugs were irrelevant and didn’t change his breathing patterns, among other things.  Also, that a healthy person would’ve died under the same circumstances. 
 

Honestly, I can’t fathom all of that will play well with any jury member...

I don't either.  But we still have to hear from the experts who will testify how and why the other experts are wrong. 

The training videos do matter.  They show the police were taught techniques the PD expert said they were not taught.  It weakens his entire testimony.   

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19 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

Yeah seriously...night night, keep your butthole tight at this point.

I feel the same as you. Unless the Defense has some huge trump card to play, dude's going to get one of those lesser murder charges to stick (at least) on top of a surefire manslaughter conviction and getting sent upstate for a good long time. Hopefully for good.

That said, they're anticipating craziness here I can tell. There's cops everywhere right now. Like I went 3 months without seeing maybe 2-3 cops, and now, they're all over the place. Every BART train has had a cop on it the last week. So, honestly, just for selfish reasons alone, I hope they make the charges stick.

I wouldn’t go to work the day they announce the verdict. I happened to be in the Bay Area when they announced the Rodney King verdict. A co worker and I had to go from Walnut Creek to the SF airport to fly back to Boise. We went south on the 680 and went across the Dumbarton bridge to avoid going through Oakland. 

Anything less than a 2nd degree murder conviction is going to see rioting. A manslaughter or hung jury is going to be mayhem. 

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12 minutes ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

I don't either.  But we still have to hear from the experts who will testify how and why the other experts are wrong. 

The training videos do matter.  They show the police were taught techniques the PD expert said they were not taught.  It weakens his entire testimony.   

I'm gonna have to bring you back a long, long time ago, slowhiteguy, to a time when America was on top of the world, when we had the globe by the balls, and when we were united in beating fascists. that time was 1945-1946 where it was pretty conclusively demonstrated that just following orders while committing horrific acts was not a valid defense.

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8 minutes ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

Yeah.  It's how they are taught.  What issue do you have with that?  

 

Even if there was/is a training video showing the use of that technique the issue will be was it it applied in excess to the point it caused his death.  By all accounts today it was.  I tuned intoday expecting to get confirmation bias that only manslaughter would stick.  He is going away for long time, murder 2 is looking like a safe bet at the minimum and both manslaughter chargers are a sure thing.

 

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18 minutes ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

I don't either.  But we still have to hear from the experts who will testify how and why the other experts are wrong. 

The training videos do matter.  They show the police were taught techniques the PD expert said they were not taught.  It weakens his entire testimony.   

I don’t think that will override Chauvins personal responsibility in the Floyd circumstance. He can be the most trained cop in the world, but if his actions are deemed to have caused Floyd’s death - even without intent to kill - he’s toast.

When it comes to the other (defense) experts, all I can say is that they had better be extraordinary (for Chauvin’s sake). The prosecution got out of the gate in tremendously important aspects of the medical/cause of death questions today. A 10 out of 10, many trial experts are saying. Yes, it only takes one to have doubts, but I’m telling you both the content and, again, the demeanor of Tobin today was simply off-the/charts good for the prosecution... 

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1 hour ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The murder chargers, at least one, will stick.

I wouldn't be so sure.  All it takes is 1 juror to disagree (or maybe not pay attention) and this could end up in a mistrial.

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1 minute ago, sjsbuff said:

I don’t think that will override Chauvins personal responsibility in the Floyd circumstance. He can be the most trained cop in the world, but if his actions are deemed to have caused Floyd’s death - even without intent to kill - he’s toast.

When it comes to the other (defense) experts, all I can say is that they had better be extraordinary (for Chauvin’s sake). The prosecution got out of the gate in tremendously key aspects of the medical aspect today. A 10 out of 10, many trial experts are saying. Yes. It only takes one, but I’m telling you both the content and, gain, the demeanor of Tobin today was off-the/charts good for the prosecution... 

Even Eric Nelson seemed pretty defeated today towards the end.  Prosecution was aces.

 

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18 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

I wouldn’t go to work the day they announce the verdict. I happened to be in the Bay Area when they announced the Rodney King verdict. A co worker and I had to go from Walnut Creek to the SF airport to fly back to Boise. We went south on the 680 and went across the Dumbarton bridge to avoid going through Oakland. 

Anything less than a 2nd degree murder conviction is going to see rioting. A manslaughter or hung jury is going to be mayhem. 

If Chauvin walks I'm holing up in my house with about a weeks worth of beer and weed and riding the storm out.

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4 minutes ago, sjsbuff said:

I don’t think that will override Chauvins personal responsibility in the Floyd circumstance. He can be the most trained cop in the world, but if his actions are deemed to have caused Floyd’s death - even without intent to kill - he’s toast.

When it comes to the other (defense) experts, all I can say is that they had better be extraordinary (for Chauvin’s sake). The prosecution got out of the gate in tremendously important aspects of the medical/cause of death questions today. A 10 out of 10, many trial experts are saying. Yes, it only takes one to have doubts, but I’m telling you both the content and, again, the demeanor of Tobin today was simply off-the/charts good for the prosecution... 

It's not even halftime yet.  Way too soon to stick a fork in Chavin. 

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1 minute ago, bsu_alum9 said:

I wouldn't be so sure.  All it takes is 1 juror to disagree (or maybe not pay attention) and this could end up in a mistrial.

Possible but I would not bet on it at this point.

If that does end up being the case, things are going to get ugly in a way that would make last spring/summer look like the "summer of love", indeed.

 

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