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Gonzaga should have joined the MWC

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1 minute ago, #1Stunner said:

Plus, they have some Universities that are the flagship of their respective State---Wyoming, New Mexico, Boise State. 

I see what you did there. 

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19 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

And both have won absolutely nothing despite being darlings of various tournaments.

Butler is in a way better conference, now, though. Hence, Gonzaga more or less a poor man's Butler.

We need to get you a Dons shirt.

It seemed like the Dons were poised to emerge in the WCC that past few years, but they have fallen behind.   We are seeing LMU, Pepperdine, and Santa Clara really moving up. 

 

ff_2225648alt1_full.jpg&w=900

 

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1 minute ago, masterfrog said:

I see what you did there. 

Sorry, I forgot UNR.

Wyoming, New Mexico, Boise, and Nevada Reno  (Flagship Universities of their State)

 

(Hawaii isn't in the MWC in Hoops).

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10 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

We need to get you a Dons shirt.

It seemed like the Dons were poised to emerge in the WCC that past few years, but they have fallen behind.   We are seeing LMU, Pepperdine, and Santa Clara really moving up. 

 

ff_2225648alt1_full.jpg&w=900

 

I have one lol. And you have no idea how awful it was this year living in the same town as the Dons and not being allowed to go to games. Awful.

They could be the powerbrokers of the WCC but probably will forever be a middling-to-good team.

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27 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

We need to get you a Dons shirt.

It seemed like the Dons were poised to emerge in the WCC that past few years, but they have fallen behind.   We are seeing LMU, Pepperdine, and Santa Clara really moving up. 

 

ff_2225648alt1_full.jpg&w=900

 

 

Before we start the Pepperdine moving up talk, how about they stay within 25 points of Cal State Bakersfield next time?

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16 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

I have one lol. And you have no idea how awful it was this year living in the same town as the Dons and not being allowed to go to games. Awful.

They could be the powerbrokers of the WCC but probably will forever be a middling-to-good team.

Yes, they have all the advantages---location, history, etc.   It has been a mystery why they can't seem to step up. 

For whatever reason, they usually go cheap when they hire a coach.  So that could be the main problem.

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2 hours ago, 818SUDSFan said:

How do you define "overall success"? "Impediment" to what?

Since 1999 there have been 14 national championship winners not named Kentucky, Michigan St., North Carolina, Duke or Kansas. If the Big East is considered a power conference, and it is, all of them were from power conferences.

Just another example of why I believe that although being in the WCC certainly hasn't limited Gonzaga's ability to get seeded high annually by the NCAA tournament committee, it is very arguable that not being in a power conference HAS been an impediment to the Zags' pursuit of a NC.

Here is my response from the Aggie board”

 

“Well it prepared them enough to win 5 games in the tourney this year. I thought I’d compare Gonzaga’s NCAA tournament success with the seven “Blue Blood” basketball programs since 1999, when Gonzaga first went to the NCAA tourney.

Appearances: 22
Sweet 16: 11
Elite 8: 5
Final Four: 2
Finals: 2
Championships: 0

In the same period this is Duke’s record:
Appearances: 21
Sweet 16: 16
Elite 8: 8
Final 4: 5
Finals: 4
Championships: 3

In the same period this is Kentucky’s record:
Appearances: 19
Sweet 16: 13
Elite 8: 10
Final 4: 4
Finals: 2
Championships: 1

In the same period this is Kansas’ record:
Appearances: 22
Sweet 16: 13
Elite 8: 10
Final 4: 5
Finals: 3
Championships: 1

In the same period this is North Carolina’s record:
Appearances: 19
Sweet 16: 11
Elite 8: 9
Final 4: 6
Finals: 4
Championships: 3


In the same period this is Michigan State’s record:
Appearances: 22
Sweet 16: 13
Elite 8: 10
Final 4: 8
Finals: 2
Championships: 1

In the same period this is Michigan’s record:
Appearances: 10
Sweet 16: 6
Elite 8: 4
Final 4: 2
Finals: 2
Championships: 0

In the same period this is Virginia’s record:
Appearances: 10
Sweet 16: 3
Elite 8: 2
Final 4: 1
Finals: 1
Championships: 1

In the same period this is Ohio State’s record:
Appearances: 12 (3 of these were vacated)
Sweet 16: 6 (1 of these were vacated)
Elite 8: 4 (1 of these were vacated)
Final 4: 3 (1 of these were vacated)
Finals: 1
Championships: 0

Of all of the DI college basketball programs only five (Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas and Michigan St.) have exceeded Gonzaga’s NCAA success over the last 23 seasons. That doesn’t scream “Gonzaga needs to leave the WCC if it wants to compete in the NCAA tourney” to me.

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1 hour ago, Joe from WY said:

How do you quantify "more success"? Because more than those 4 have won titles the last 22 years and the Zags have won none. They're a poor man's Butler at this point.

And yours is an uninformed statement. Gonzaga is a perennial force in the NCAA tourney. Butler is not. You may say that Gonzaga is a poor man’s Duke (or Kentucky, or Kansas, or North Carolina or Michigan St) — but there is no other team that has come close to Gonzaga’s tournament success in the last 23 years.

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2 hours ago, Joe from WY said:

Creighton sucked ass. And your team lost to them. My point was that as good of a season as you had by UCSB standards, you still weren't some powerhouse that they got by...you were some lowly mid-major that took the kitchen sink to get past. Not an elite program.

I had UCSB making a run too, just based on how I thought things would break, but that doesn't change the fact that all 4 teams in that little pod there weren't that good and that Gonzaga faced little-to-no tests all year.

Not really Gonzaga's fault that Kansas,  Virginia,  Iowa weren't a challenge this year 

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1 hour ago, utaggies said:

And yours is an uninformed statement. Gonzaga is a perennial force in the NCAA tourney. Butler is not. You may say that Gonzaga is a poor man’s Duke (or Kentucky, or Kansas, or North Carolina or Michigan St) — but there is no other team that has come close to Gonzaga’s tournament success in the last 23 years.

I'd say Villanova has been pretty good the last several years.

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25 minutes ago, Pelado said:

I'd say Villanova has been pretty good the last several years.

Here’s Villanova’s resume over the same 23 years as Gonzaga:

NCAA appearances: 16

Sweet 16: 7

Elite 8: 4

Final 4: 3

Finals: w2

Championships: 2

 

Villanova has more natties but I’d still give Gonzaga a slight nod for its more impressive body of work.

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18 minutes ago, utaggies said:

Here’s Villanova’s resume over the same 23 years as Gonzaga:

NCAA appearances: 16

Sweet 16: 7

Elite 8: 4

Final 4: 3

Finals: w2

Championships: 2

 

Villanova has more natties but I’d still give Gonzaga a slight nod for its more impressive body of work.

Villanova has more titles, more Final Fours, almost as many Elite 8s and fewer Sweet 16s and appearances.  As a fan, I think I'd prefer Villanova's higher ceilings to Gonzaga's higher floors.  Only 6 teams have won more championships than Villanova.

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30 minutes ago, Pelado said:

Villanova has more titles, more Final Fours, almost as many Elite 8s and fewer Sweet 16s and appearances.  As a fan, I think I'd prefer Villanova's higher ceilings to Gonzaga's higher floors.  Only 6 teams have won more championships than Villanova.

You have a good point. But back to the premise of Gonzaga joining the MWC to toughen themselves up for March Madness — Wisconsin, Ohio St., Michigan, LSU, Texas, Illinois, Indiana, Georgetown, Syracuse and Florida should probably do likewise.

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2 hours ago, utaggies said:

And yours is an uninformed statement. Gonzaga is a perennial force in the NCAA tourney. Butler is not. You may say that Gonzaga is a poor man’s Duke (or Kentucky, or Kansas, or North Carolina or Michigan St) — but there is no other team that has come close to Gonzaga’s tournament success in the last 23 years.

And yet they still have never won anything except some participation ribbons.

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1 hour ago, MetropolitanCowboy said:

And yet they still have never won anything except some participation ribbons.

Participation ribbons indeed. Please give me the value of those ribbons. Since 1999 Gonzaga has earned 58 NCAA basketball units totaling $88.5 million. One unit is accorded for each NCAA game, up to a maximum of 5 units/year. Over the same period the MWC teams (including their tenures in different conferences) have earned 70 units totaling $97.6 million. I believe that in 3 more years Gonzaga will have exceeded the whole of the MWC in both NCAA units and earnings.

 

FWIW, this is the tally on MWC teams:

USU: 11 units (not including 2020) ($15,522,000)

SDS: 16 units ($23,658,000)

New Mexico: 10 units ($11,076,000)

UNLV: 8 units ($11,244,000)

CSU: 4 units ($5,928,000)

Wyoming: 3 units ($3,996,000)

Nevada: 13 units ($17,502,000)

SJS: 0 units

Fresno St.: 2 units (doesn’t include 1 unit vacated) ($3,990,000)

Boise St.: 3 units ($4,662,000)

 

70 credits earned ($97,578,000)

 

 

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18 minutes ago, utaggies said:

Participation ribbons indeed. Please give me the value of those ribbons. Since 1999 Gonzaga has earned 58 NCAA basketball units totaling $88.5 million. One unit is accorded for each NCAA game, up to a maximum of 5 units/year. Over the same period the MWC teams (including their tenures in different conferences) have earned 70 units totaling $97.6 million. I believe that in 3 more years Gonzaga will have exceeded the whole of the MWC in both NCAA units and earnings.

 

FWIW, this is the tally on MWC teams:

USU: 11 units (not including 2020) ($15,522,000)

SDS: 16 units ($23,658,000)

New Mexico: 10 units ($11,076,000)

UNLV: 8 units ($11,244,000)

CSU: 4 units ($5,928,000)

Wyoming: 3 units ($3,996,000)

Nevada: 13 units ($17,502,000)

SJS: 0 units

Fresno St.: 2 units (doesn’t include 1 unit vacated) ($3,990,000)

Boise St.: 3 units ($4,662,000)

 

70 credits earned ($97,578,000)

 

 

 

I'm glad you noted the tenures in different conferences. Of USU's 11 credits since 1999, five were earned while they were in the Big West, four in the WAC, and two in the MWC.

Nevada had eight in the WAC.  Five in the MWC.

Boise one in the WAC.  Two in the MWC.

I think it's one and one for Fresno.

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3 hours ago, happycamper said:

Not really Gonzaga's fault that Kansas,  Virginia,  Iowa weren't a challenge this year 

Nah. It looked good on paper. But we saw the end result.

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5 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

Yes, they have all the advantages---location, history, etc.   It has been a mystery why they can't seem to step up. 

For whatever reason, they usually go cheap when they hire a coach.  So that could be the main problem.

It's apathy more than anything.

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4 hours ago, utaggies said:

And yours is an uninformed statement. Gonzaga is a perennial force in the NCAA tourney. Butler is not. You may say that Gonzaga is a poor man’s Duke (or Kentucky, or Kansas, or North Carolina or Michigan St) — but there is no other team that has come close to Gonzaga’s tournament success in the last 23 years.

They're such a perennial force they've never won a natty.

It's Butler in a shittier league.

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8 hours ago, ph90702 said:

The only thing Gonzaga can do is go independent and see if the NCAA would work something out where they get an auto bid if they finish with a certain NET ranking.  If they would agree to that, then there would be no benefit in them being in the WCC.

If you were independent and couldnt get an at-large,  what is the point.  This made no sense 

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