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Gonzaga should have joined the MWC

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In response to the same comment on the Aggie board I did some research. Since 1999 only Kentucky, Michigan St., North Carolina, Duke and Kansas have had more overall success than Gonzaga. The WCC is no impediment to the Bulldogs.

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16 minutes ago, utaggies said:

In response to the same comment on the Aggie board I did some research. Since 1999 only Kentucky, Michigan St., North Carolina, Duke and Kansas have had more overall success than Gonzaga. The WCC is no impediment to the Bulldogs.

How do you define "overall success"? "Impediment" to what?

Since 1999 there have been 14 national championship winners not named Kentucky, Michigan St., North Carolina, Duke or Kansas. If the Big East is considered a power conference, and it is, all of them were from power conferences.

Just another example of why I believe that although being in the WCC certainly hasn't limited Gonzaga's ability to get seeded high annually by the NCAA tournament committee, it is very arguable that not being in a power conference HAS been an impediment to the Zags' pursuit of a NC.

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1 minute ago, 818SUDSFan said:

How do you define "overall success"? "Impediment" to what?

Since 1999 there have been 14 national championship winners not named Kentucky, Michigan St., North Carolina, Duke or Kansas. If the Big East is considered a power conference, and it is, all of them were from power conferences.

Just another example of why I believe that although being in the WCC certainly hasn't limited Gonzaga's ability to get seeded high annually by the NCAA tournament committee, it is very arguable that not being in a non-power conference HAS been an impediment to the Zags pursuit of a NC.

Correlation is not causation.

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Just now, Pelado said:

Correlation is not causation.

It's not absolute causation, true. However, it IS circumstantial evidence.

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1 minute ago, 818SUDSFan said:

It's not absolute causation, true. However, it IS circumstantial evidence.

UConn won the title in 2014 out of the AAC.  Are they a power conference?

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Just now, Pelado said:

UConn won the title in 2014 out of the AAC.  Are they a power conference?

I stand corrected. I was thinking they were still in the Big East.

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3 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

It's not absolute causation, true. However, it IS circumstantial evidence.

They have performed better in March than their seeding would indicate.  Plus, they likely would have been a 1-seed last season, but did not get a chance at the title because of the tournament being cancelled.  Once you get in the tournament - especially as a high seed - what conference you came from doesn't matter that much.

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2 minutes ago, Pelado said:

They have performed better in March than their seeding would indicate.

Particularly because YBU is also in the WCC, your saying that doesn't make it so.

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Aside from not winning the title, Gonzaga has been as consistently successful in the tournament as pretty much anyone else over the last several years:

6 straight Sweet 16s

4 Elite 8s

2 Final Fours

2 Championship games

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3 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

Particularly because YBU is also in the WCC, your saying that doesn't make it so.

See this post:

 

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1 minute ago, Pelado said:

See this post:

 

I'm not going to sort through six pages of posts. Tell me which ones allegedly support your premise and maybe I'll take a look at them.

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4 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

I'm not going to sort through six pages of posts. Tell me which ones allegedly support your premise and maybe I'll take a look at them.

Click on the title at the top of the link - it should take you right to the post I'm referencing.

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Let's look at another metric.  Here's a list of what seeds historically have won the national championship since they expanded the tournament to 64 teams: https://bracketresearch.com/the-dna-of-a-national-championship-team/seeds-of-ncaa-tournament-champions/

Let's assume that those winning percentages are predictive of how often each seed should win a title.  In other words, if a 1 seed wins the tournament 62.86% of the time, then any given 1-seed has a 15.71% chance of winning the tournament in any particular year (62.86% / 4 regions).  Only teams seeded 1-8 have ever won a title.  Gonzaga has been seeded 8 or better 15 times.  Multiplying the number of times they've had a particular seed times the expecting title win percentage for that seed, the total number of titles that they should have won is 0.8071.  So they are definitely not exceeding expectations on winning a title, but it's not like they should have already won several by now.

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10 hours ago, jdgaucho said:

 

The lack of respect for Creighton, and to a lesser extent UCSB, is stunning.  Creighton was a top 25 team who finished second in the Big East.  And my "shitass team who pushed them to the wire" was a fringe top 50 squad themselves who won 18 of its last 19 games entering the Tournament.  One of the nation's hottest streaks. FFS, that was why a few pundits picked UCSB to advance to the Sweet 16. I'm certain we would have given Gonzaga a better test.  I'm also certain we would have lost by a dozen or so.

I missed Creighton's game vs Gonzaga but heard they tried to speed them up, which played into Gonzaga's hands. Hardly a knock on the Bluejays result.

Creighton sucked ass. And your team lost to them. My point was that as good of a season as you had by UCSB standards, you still weren't some powerhouse that they got by...you were some lowly mid-major that took the kitchen sink to get past. Not an elite program.

I had UCSB making a run too, just based on how I thought things would break, but that doesn't change the fact that all 4 teams in that little pod there weren't that good and that Gonzaga faced little-to-no tests all year.

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51 minutes ago, utaggies said:

In response to the same comment on the Aggie board I did some research. Since 1999 only Kentucky, Michigan St., North Carolina, Duke and Kansas have had more overall success than Gonzaga. The WCC is no impediment to the Bulldogs.

How do you quantify "more success"? Because more than those 4 have won titles the last 22 years and the Zags have won none. They're a poor man's Butler at this point.

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2 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

How do you quantify "more success"? Because more than those 4 have won titles the last 22 years and the Zags have won none. They're a poor man's Butler at this point.

Poor man's Butler?  Butler has been to the Sweet 16 six times in its entire history.  Gonzaga has been in the Sweet 16 each of the last six tournaments and 10 times under Mark Few.

Butler has gone beyond the Sweet 16 twice, advancing to the title game both times.

Gonzaga has been to the Elite 8 twice in the last six tournaments in addition to their two runs to the title game.

Since Few took over at Gonzaga:

Sweet 16 - Gonzaga 10, Butler 5

Elite 8 - Gonzaga 4, Butler 2

Final Four - Gonzaga 2, Butler 2

Runner-up - Gonzaga 2, Butler 2

Championships - Gonzaga 0, Butler 0

Butler is a poor man's Gonzaga.

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1 minute ago, Pelado said:

Poor man's Butler?  Butler has been to the Sweet 16 six times in its entire history.  Gonzaga has been in the Sweet 16 each of the last six tournaments and 10 times under Mark Few.

Butler has gone beyond the Sweet 16 twice, advancing to the title game both times.

Gonzaga has been to the Elite 8 twice in the last six tournaments in addition to their two runs to the title game.

Since Few took over at Gonzaga:

Sweet 16 - Gonzaga 10, Butler 5

Elite 8 - Gonzaga 4, Butler 2

Final Four - Gonzaga 2, Butler 2

Runner-up - Gonzaga 2, Butler 2

Championships - Gonzaga 0, Butler 0

Butler is a poor man's Gonzaga.

And both have won absolutely nothing despite being darlings of various tournaments.

Butler is in a way better conference, now, though. Hence, Gonzaga more or less a poor man's Butler.

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Guest #1Stunner
2 hours ago, ph90702 said:

The only thing Gonzaga can do is go independent and see if the NCAA would work something out where they get an auto bid if they finish with a certain NET ranking.  If they would agree to that, then there would be no benefit in them being in the WCC.

Gonzaga has an entire Athletics Program---not just men's basketball.   Going independent in football is one thing... But for the entire athletics department???  That would be a disaster. 

Gonzaga benefits greatly from the WCC for its sports.  It is a regional conference.

Sure they would prefer the Big East, but they are in Spokane WA.  So it is what it is. 

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57 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

Particularly because YBU is also in the WCC, your saying that doesn't make it so.

 

53 minutes ago, Pelado said:

See this post:

 

 

To be fair.... I think BYU and Gonzaga would both support adding San Diego State and Boise State to the WCC.  Not sure about the rest of the schools, though. 

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Guest #1Stunner

Both the WCC and MWC are going to be fine moving forward, and the fact is, the deck is completely stacked against both conferences ever winning a national championship in men's basketball.   Gonzaga had the best roster it has ever had, and it is clear that they didn't have as much talent as Baylor.

The MWC has the edge on fan support over the WCC, and so that will always help them.  Plus, they have some Universities that are the flagship of their respective State---Wyoming, New Mexico, Boise State. 

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