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UNLV2001

UNLV Men's Basketball Off-Season Thread !!!

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6 minutes ago, utenation said:

I said way too much.. I think he was about 3.75. Did you miss my response or just being a smart ass? If you're trying to bait me into a Utah comparison here, you will lose. I could go on for awhile badmouthing our basketball program right now.

3.75 million to finish at the bottom of the PAC12. Tell me more about using resources on coaches salaries! :loser:

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50 minutes ago, utenation said:

So you don't think the MWC is holding you back? If, not fair enough.

MWC could be a good BB conference is some programs would get their crap together 

UNLV .....New Mexico.......Fresno St.......Wyoming.......SDSU........Nevada.........Utah St are all programs that have had some good wining seasons.

Problem is that, except for SDSU recently (since Fisher) none of the other have had sustained runs of winning and all of those with maybe the exception of Wyoming should be able to get a coach for the long haul & not one that is looking to jump ship to a P5 program the instant they have a modicum of success 

Back in the Tark era of UNLV BB........UNLV never had to worry about some school poaching Tark for two reasons:

1) Tark built UNLV from the ground up & it was his baby, then the winning started & the entire (much smaller LV area) jumped on the bandwagon which held Tark as a local deity & he played Vegas as well.

2) Tark's reputation was known coming in from LBSU, and when he started winning at UNLV at higher levels.......there weren't many schools that would take the risk on hiring Tark .........and also back then the P5 didn't have the vast TV $$ they have today where they could dangle massive $$ to a coach that the smaller programs can't come close to matching.

 

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2 minutes ago, UNLV2001 said:

MWC could be a good BB conference is some programs would get their crap together 

UNLV .....New Mexico.......Fresno St.......Wyoming.......SDSU........Nevada.........Utah St are all programs that have had some good wining seasons.

Problem is that, except for SDSU recently (since Fisher) none of the other have had sustained runs of winning and all of those with maybe the exception of Wyoming should be able to get a coach for the long haul & not one that is looking to jump ship to a P5 program the instant they have a modicum of success 

Back in the Tark era of UNLV BB........UNLV never had to worry about some school poaching Tark for two reasons:

1) Tark built UNLV from the ground up & it was his baby, then the winning started & the entire (much smaller LV area) jumped on the bandwagon which held Tark as a local deity & he played Vegas as well.

2) Tark's reputation was known coming in from LBSU, and when he started winning at UNLV at higher levels.......there weren't many schools that would take the risk on hiring Tark .........and also back then the P5 didn't have the vast TV $$ they have today where they could dangle massive $$ to a coach that the smaller programs can't come close to matching.

 

Boise hasn't been terrible, especially with where they were.  CSU seems to be on the rise.  Just like in football, poaching is the name of the game.  Sucks but that's what it is. 

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2 minutes ago, utenation said:

Boise hasn't been terrible, especially with where they were.  CSU seems to be on the rise.  Just like in football, poaching is the name of the game.  Sucks but that's what it is. 

BSU seems to be a decent shape........CSU has had a decent run, but neither have "historical" staying power - Now going forward, they could be in great shape 

Go back 20+ years (i'm old) and that WAC 16 was pretty solid in BB, of course that included Rick Majerus Utah teams & some good BYU teams.

I'm old enough to recall the old WAC of the late 70's early 80's when UNLV had their dalliance with the old WAC........at that time, Utah (Chambers, Vranes, Mannion) BYU (Ainge & Roberts(?)), New Mexico & Wyoming were all ranked in the top 20.

Don't see why UNLV, New Mexico, SDSU, Nevada couldn't be a good solid 4 programs and then add in BSU, CSU, USU & WYO and that's 8 programs that should be able to put together sustain runs of success & keep decent coaches (some easier than others - SDSU, UNLV, UNM, BSU & NV are places a coach can win long term IMO) 

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19 minutes ago, Rosegreen said:

3.75 million to finish at the bottom of the PAC12. Tell me more about using resources on coaches salaries! :loser:

I expect a little better than this from you... Pre Larry, Utah was very terrible.  Boylen bad.. Larry was given a fair salary to start with. His contract was up just about the time he got Utah to two straight NCAA appearances with one S16 run..  In a P5 League, what do you think is going to happen if you don't pay him?

BTW, you might want to check on Larry's conference record, he finished 2nd 3 times, 3rd a few times and 4th a few times. On average Utah was in the top half of the conference more than not.  The last 4 years, he's fallen apart, major transfer issues. Some have argued he shouldn't have been fired. But it was time to go.

But Utah did the right thing by paying him when they did. It just didn't work out in the end. He was bought out by boosters. So clearly Ute brass agree with you that his pay was too high.

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8 minutes ago, utenation said:

Larry K has done better than what the last 5-6 UNLV coaches? 

He's done better than any Vegas coach  not named Jerry Tarkaian or Lon Kruger. And he did it in a better conference.

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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10 minutes ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

He's done better than any Vegas coach  not named Jerry Tarkaian or Lon Kruger. And he did it in a better conference.

I warned Rosegreen this was a bad road. You also don’t see Utah fans spouting off on how good we are the last 4-5 years because of useless stats from 30 years ago. 
 
Utah has work to do. We aren’t good. We have failed the last few years.  I think we’ll be back but I’m cautious. 

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1 hour ago, UNLV2001 said:

 

These things with players of 'suspect' character & basically low to no academics were one reason UNLV, via Tarkanian, got the reputation and why then President Maxson was hellbent on ousting Tark - The most public recruiting debacle was the Tark fascination with Lloyd Daniels - that alone was enough to trigger the beginning of the end for Tark at UNLV.

Remember this also.....the big $$ boosters of that era were involved with UNLV because of one thing, the basketball program.........no winning BB program & the big $$ boosters of that era would have had little to do with UNLV from any standpoint, their kids didn't go to UNLV, but their $$ did because of the winning & the notoriety it brought to Vegas - And the BB program was as much a marketing tool as it was anything - Games would start at 8:05 pm, be broadcast specifically to the southern California market with LA Lakers broadcast legend Chick Hearn doing the call......and every halftime the guest would be some casino marketing person regaling the SOCAL TV audience with the casino's doin's in the coming weeks.

Then toss in the high scoring, fast breaking style of play........and the Tarkanian / Las Vegas marriage was consummated .......the BB program was Vegas & Vegas was the BB program......a totally symbiotic relationship based on the glitz, the fast pace, the bending of rules that Vegas was thought to be.

Not sure if Tark could have pulled it off at any other university in the country .......UNLV, Vegas & Tarkanian were the perfect marriage

Here's why Jerry Tarkanian was always chewing on a towel - The Washington  Post

Well said!  I respect the UNLV story and enjoyed watching and following the Rebs in the Tark era.  It was magic. 

However, it's also possible that UNLV couldn't do it with another coach.  Hopefully, coach Krueger works out but he has a lot of work to do.  I would love to have both programs competing at the top level with Nevada winning of course!

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3 hours ago, utenation said:

So in your estimation, what is the answer conference wise for UNLV to be successful? The MWC doesn't cut the mustard. What is the answer?

There are a few ways to do it. 

What Muss and Beard did are what I like. 

I also like what Fish did. I believe it's the same blueprint Menzies was using, but UNLV doesn't have an apathetic fanbase like suds had back then. 

Both have their perks and pitfalls.

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1 hour ago, utenation said:

I warned Rosegreen this was a bad road. You also don’t see Utah (UNLV) fans spouting off on how good we are the last 4-5 years because of useless stats from 30 years ago. 
 
Utah has work to do. We aren’t good. We have failed the last few years.  I think we’ll be back but I’m cautious. 

In fairness, isn't this what most UNLV fans are saying? with a couple of exceptions, of course, lol.

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2 hours ago, UNLV2001 said:

 

These things with players of 'suspect' character & basically low to no academics were one reason UNLV, via Tarkanian, got the reputation and why then President Maxson was hellbent on ousting Tark - The most public recruiting debacle was the Tark fascination with Lloyd Daniels - that alone was enough to trigger the beginning of the end for Tark at UNLV.

Remember this also.....the big $$ boosters of that era were involved with UNLV because of one thing, the basketball program.........no winning BB program & the big $$ boosters of that era would have had little to do with UNLV from any standpoint, their kids didn't go to UNLV, but their $$ did because of the winning & the notoriety it brought to Vegas - And the BB program was as much a marketing tool as it was anything - Games would start at 8:05 pm, be broadcast specifically to the southern California market with LA Lakers broadcast legend Chick Hearn doing the call......and every halftime the guest would be some casino marketing person regaling the SOCAL TV audience with the casino's doin's in the coming weeks.

 

 

Have to disagree with that a bit.  The vision that people like Sig Rogich, Irwin Molasky, Dave Pearl and others had in the early 70s was the same model that UCLA/USC used in the 60s and 70s which was to have great athletic programs to reel in both alumni and non-alumni in Southern CA to give money to help bolster the academic side. Given the football program was DII at the time it made sense to try and build the men's basketball program as the draw as it was Division I.  

All you had to do was look around UNLV’s campus in the 80’s and early 90’s to see the fruits of it.  The money the basketball program was generating helped build the new buildings on campus, boost scholarship programs, market academic programs, etc.

It certainly wasn’t being pumped back into the basketball side of things.  North Gym where they practiced was a glorified rec center, all the gear came free from Nike, Jerry was paid decent but was far from one of the highest paid coaches in the country.  

No question Maxson used the fruits of the men's basketball program to help his academic vision.  Unfortunately his ego ran amok and the two couldn't work together and benefit off of each other which in the end the school was hurt by the most.  

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8 hours ago, utenation said:

My memory doesn't go back as far as UNLV fans but haven't you guys won 8 in a row head to head?

 

8 hours ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

We have.  Next year will make 10; 11 if we get them in the conference tournament. 

UNLV last beat Reno in Reno in 2018, so however many that is, lol.

 

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1 hour ago, utenation said:

Larry K has done better than what the last 5-6 UNLV coaches and Utah was in a much tougher league? 

Was Larry K the coach in 2017 when the Runnin' Rebels kicked your ass by 30?

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3 minutes ago, Ernie Baer said:

Have to disagree with that a bit.  The vision that people like Sig Rogich, Irwin Molasky, Dave Pearl and others had in the early 70s was the same model that UCLA/USC used in the 60s and 70s which was to have great athletic programs to reel in both alumni and non-alumni in Southern CA to give money to help bolster the academic side. Given the football program was DII at the time it made sense to try and build the men's basketball program as the draw as it was Division I.  

All you had to do was look around UNLV’s campus in the 80’s and early 90’s to see the fruits of it.  The money the basketball program was generating helped build the new buildings on campus, boost scholarship programs, market academic programs, etc.

It certainly wasn’t being pumped back into the basketball side of things.  North Gym where they practiced was a glorified rec center, all the gear came free from Nike, Jerry was paid decent but was far from one of the highest paid coaches in the country.  

No question Maxson used the fruits of the men's basketball program to help his academic vision.  Unfortunately his ego ran amok and the two couldn't work together and benefit off of each other which in the end the school was hurt by the most.  

Maxson is on the short list of worst all time Las Vegans. 

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Just now, 4UNLV said:

Did we meet in the tournament one of those years? Otherwise 7 since then. Embarrassing how low our program has sunk, :P.

JK. Yours has been better the last few years.

It's 8.  We're counting right now😛  

The last 20 years has been very good for Nevada and we have a chance to sustain and possibly add to the success.  It's not national championships but that isn't the expectation or even realistic in the north.

Hopefully Nevada found a unique situation with Alford and he will stay a few years.  Otherwise, we will turnover successful coaches every 4 to 5 years and be stuck with the bad ones for 6 to 7.  

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12 minutes ago, toonkee said:

Was Larry K the coach in 2017 when the Runnin' Rebels kicked your ass by 30?

Do you really want to play this game? The series is 25-23 for UNLV. 

Didn’t Larry beat your ass by double digits in 2014 in Vegas?
 

This is pointless to the discussion.  Other than Rosegreen looking for a payroll burn from a guy that has had far more success than UNLV since Lon. 

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25 minutes ago, 4UNLV said:

In fairness, isn't this what most UNLV fans are saying? with a couple of exceptions, of course, lol.

Really??? Finding a rational UNLV fan on this board is like looking for Bigfoot. 
 

BTW, I love your posts. 100% solid.

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