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soupslam1

The US Citizenship Act of 2021

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6 hours ago, grandjean87 said:

That is an open question, I would so agree.  Until we can pioneer sustainable economic growth and large entitlements funding w/o, it’s a concern. 

@Maji

Hope you are well and fine.  Just to clarify, I’m certainly pro-immigration in 2021.  In the future, I don’t know how everything will sort out. Maybe be we can sustain economic and social growth w/o population growth?  Another subject. 

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8 minutes ago, grandjean87 said:

@Maji

Hope you are well and fine.  Just to clarify, I’m certainly pro-immigration in 2021.  In the future, I don’t know how everything will sort out. Maybe be we can sustain economic and social growth w/o population growth?  Another subject. 

 

Pretty much my stance.  For right now and the near future I subscribe to @BSUTOP25's position.  

With current advancements and their projected (by some) impacts it is just impossible to say what the needs of the labor force will be in 2035, 2045 and 2055.  

AI, computing, automation, societal changes.  Whole lot of variables.

Also @Maji I miss you, commie slut.  You piss me off way less than 80% of the blue turf board.  That place just puts me in a dour mood.

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8 hours ago, NorthWestCowboy said:

Here we go yet again............  I am so sick and tired of this yo-yo immigration scenario.  Neither side is willing to compromise to produce a more stable border while at the same time creating the immigration system we need for labor and sustainable growth.  For decades now both sides intentionally do not compromise on this issue.  Instead they use immigration to fundraise and beat each other up during election cycles and our immigration policy remains in shambles.  The American people are getting played by both the GOP and Democratic leadership.

So now it is time to beat up the Democrats for their latest one-sided immigration policy.  In 4 years it will be the GOP doing something stupid like sending foreign graduate students home or not allowing foreign scientist to come work in America or worst of all separating young children from their parents.  There is perhaps no greater example of Americas broken political system than immigration and how both parties use it to bludgeon one another.  Our politicians have completely lost sight of what made America great.  Shame on us for not holding them accountable.

Well said....  

priorities should be......

1) Dreamers.   They grew up here and we have no moral standing punishing them for the sins of their parents.   If you are against granting them citizenship you ought to look closely in the mirror.   

2) Parents of citizen children....  if their children are dreamers their should be no path to citizenship but they should be granted permanent status without the threat of deportation.  Kids need to grow up with their parents.  You can’t say you are pro-family without it.   

3rd for me is a tie....

if you are a foreign graduate student particularly with a doctorate or some unique skill it should be a no brainer.   

also while I believe in protecting our borders I also believe in diminishing returns.   If you enter illegally and manage to stay 10 years and/or have children you can stay without being a citizen.   (I would also increase electronic monitoring of the border and penalties for hiring illegals.). 

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20 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

Well said....  

priorities should be......

1) Dreamers.   They grew up here and we have no moral standing punishing them for the sins of their parents.   If you are against granting them citizenship you ought to look closely in the mirror.   

2) Parents of citizen children....  if their children are dreamers their should be no path to citizenship but they should be granted permanent status without the threat of deportation.  Kids need to grow up with their parents.  You can’t say you are pro-family without it.   

3rd for me is a tie....

if you are a foreign graduate student particularly with a doctorate or some unique skill it should be a no brainer.   

also while I believe in protecting our borders I also believe in diminishing returns.   If you enter illegally and manage to stay 10 years and/or have children you can stay without being a citizen.   (I would also increase electronic monitoring of the border and penalties for hiring illegals.). 

 

Forget border security, hell the vast majority of illegals simply overstay their visas.  How has America become so inept when hundreds of thousands annually overstay their visas and we have neither the political will nor competence to stop this from happening. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us

When it comes to people in the country without proper documentation, the majority of them didn't cross the Mexican border at all. Most of them came to the United States legally — but then don't leave.

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

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55 minutes ago, NorthWestCowboy said:

 

Forget border security, hell the vast majority of illegals simply overstay their visas.  How has America become so inept when hundreds of thousands annually overstay their visas and we have neither the political will nor competence to stop this from happening. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us

When it comes to people in the country without proper documentation, the majority of them didn't cross the Mexican border at all. Most of them came to the United States legally — but then don't leave.

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

This is why I thought Trump’s border wall was more symbolic than sensical and he knew it.  On that point, who cares if someone stays longer? Make it easy to self report and pay $$ and stay a bit longer. 

I did agree with Trump’s take that you commit a crime if you’re here on a visa and it’s hard for you to stay in the US. I think all people should be afforded due process but at the same time if you commit a serious crime you’re gonzo. 

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1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

Well said....  

priorities should be......

1) Dreamers.   They grew up here and we have no moral standing punishing them for the sins of their parents.   If you are against granting them citizenship you ought to look closely in the mirror.   

2) Parents of citizen children....  if their children are dreamers their should be no path to citizenship but they should be granted permanent status without the threat of deportation.  Kids need to grow up with their parents.  You can’t say you are pro-family without it.   

3rd for me is a tie....

if you are a foreign graduate student particularly with a doctorate or some unique skill it should be a no brainer.   

also while I believe in protecting our borders I also believe in diminishing returns.   If you enter illegally and manage to stay 10 years and/or have children you can stay without being a citizen.   (I would also increase electronic monitoring of the border and penalties for hiring illegals.). 

I agree with all of this. 

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2 hours ago, NorthWestCowboy said:

 

Forget border security, hell the vast majority of illegals simply overstay their visas.  How has America become so inept when hundreds of thousands annually overstay their visas and we have neither the political will nor competence to stop this from happening. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us

When it comes to people in the country without proper documentation, the majority of them didn't cross the Mexican border at all. Most of them came to the United States legally — but then don't leave.

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

Again we should put effort into tracking them down with the realization you probably aren’t going to get every last one because some are too smart and determined to get caught.  

if you are smart and determined enough and you avoid the feds for enough years congrats you win permanent residency because we want your genes in our gene pool.  

let’s be honest given what we have seen over the past year we need to add intelligence to the gene pool.  

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19 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

I mean, we could be looking at a job reduction of 36 million.  Granted some new jobs will be made available through all this, but anywhere close to the 36 million that may be cut off.

Even lawyers and doctors are not immune.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/02/25/automation-and-ai-will-disrupt-the-american-labor-force-heres-how-we-can-protect-workers/

Not going to hit the panic button on declining birth rates just yet.  May be a good thing, ultimately.  Wait and see mode for me.

The other option is updating tax tables so the wealth concentration that would get worse based on your post here is remedied...so more immigration or more tax for the wealthy...which you choosin'?

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

The other option is updating tax tables so the wealth concentration that would get worse based on your post here is remedied...so more immigration or more tax for the wealthy...which you choosin'?

I mean I am not really opposed to either here in 2021.  In the next few decades?  Going to have to see what happens.  Not sure we will need more immigration but I would be fine with taxing the wealthy and doing a UBI.

 

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14 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I mean I am not really opposed to either here in 2021.  In the next few decades?  Going to have to see what happens.  Not sure we will need more immigration but I would be fine with taxing the wealthy and doing a UBI.

 

  • more immigration
  • tax the wealthy
  • ubi as a part of massive entitlements reform
  • massive infrastructure works
  • probably need a combined state/local/federal program to create public housing a la singapore or sweden in urban areas
  • megafauna

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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5 minutes ago, happycamper said:
  • more immigration
  • tax the wealthy
  • ubi as a part of massive entitlements reform
  • massive infrastructure works
  • probably need a combined state/local/federal program to create public housing a la singapore or sweden in urban areas
  • megafauna

 

What about @thelawlorfaithful's tiny prisons?  

So to compromise will add

  • Permanent base on the moon
  • Mine asteroids
  • Moar tiny prisons
  • Nuclear new deal
  • Breach the dams on the Snake and save the salmon.
  • put an American on mars and plant a flag on that bitch.
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14 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

What about @thelawlorfaithful's tiny prisons?  

So to compromise will add

  • Permanent base on the moon
  • Mine asteroids
  • Moar tiny prisons
  • Nuclear new deal
  • Breach the dams on the Snake and save the salmon.
  • put an American on mars and plant a flag on that bitch.

I’ll live in a mad max world where all existence is a horrible prison before I agree to UBI. Negative income tax or post apocalyptic world. Those are my terms.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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48 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I mean I am not really opposed to either here in 2021.  In the next few decades?  Going to have to see what happens.  Not sure we will need more immigration but I would be fine with taxing the wealthy and doing a UBI.

 

Part of me wants to avoid UBI at all costs...even while I understand it may be inescapable. Just feels like the birth of a new caste system and those on UBI will be second class. Perhaps I need to cheer up. 

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

Part of me wants to avoid UBI at all costs...even while I understand it may be inescapable. Just feels like the birth of a new caste system and those on UBI will be second class. Perhaps I need to cheer up. 

I mean... that's kind of the point of UBI. everyone is on it

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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4 hours ago, AztecSU said:

Part of me wants to avoid UBI at all costs...even while I understand it may be inescapable. Just feels like the birth of a new caste system and those on UBI will be second class. Perhaps I need to cheer up. 

If it replaces existing fraud ridden and inefficient entitlement programs I don’t mind it.  I still have doubts about the effectiveness of it but it could be palatable, maybe good even.

v0icAvfW.jpg

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Ever think maybe if we didn’t systematically dismantle South America and replace democratically elected leaders under Reagan maybe people wouldn’t wanna come here..

 

Think about how dire of a situation it would take to walk to Mexico with no guarantee your life will improve.

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