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Average IQ by State

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Just now, thelawlorfaithful said:

How does it fail to gauge the aptitude fairly? It gauges what it gauges.

Because it weighs things like word association and mathematical concepts up to geometry/algebra.

If you have been given a harmonica and are not a good guitar player it does not mean you do not have the aptitude to play the guitar.  You may be a fantastic guitar player. 

The spatial recognition and reasoning portions of the tests are the only ones really where the problem does not exist.

I mean if I asked a boomer to draw an association between 4 spicy memes and they failed, but a 7 year old was able, could I make an assumption on the aptitude of either?

 

 

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23 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Because it weighs things like word association and mathematical concepts up to geometry/algebra.

If you have been given a harmonica and are not a good guitar player it does not mean you do not have the aptitude to play the guitar.  You may be a fantastic guitar player. 

The spatial recognition and reasoning portions of the tests are the only ones really where the problem does not exist.

I mean if I asked a boomer to draw an association between 4 spicy memes and they failed, but a 7 year old was able, could I make an assumption on the aptitude of either?

The aptitude of meme recognition, sure. Same with aptitude playing the guitar or harmonica. IQ doesn’t measure potential.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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30 minutes ago, Mano said:

Yes, and what it gauges is not necessarily intelligence.

Then what does it measure. Because it seems to measure something very well that correlates with a lot of things.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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12 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

The aptitude of meme recognition, sure. Same with aptitude playing the guitar or harmonica. IQ doesn’t measure potential.

I agree it does not.  It is supposed to measure your aptitude for reasoning and problem solving.  It does that to some large extent but it is far from perfect.  Part of being able to problem solve is proper practice solving problems.  

People who take IQ tests in a second language fair poorer than in their first.

 

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On 2/9/2021 at 7:39 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

I have a feeling there's a high correlation of average IQ with the percentages of each state's population who are employed in agriculture. Personally I think such workers should be getting significantly higher wages because they do backbreaking work often under bad conditions but Joe Average American doesn't want to have to pay a nickel more for a head of lettuce.

I dunno, I think there's a pretty huge difference between what Joe Farmer makes for his head of lettuce and what the American consumer pays for said head of lettuce.  No way the farmer or field workers would ever see that nickle raise.  It'd go into other pockets.

 

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2 minutes ago, Whats Up Doc said:

I dunno, I think there's a pretty huge difference between what Joe Farmer makes for his head of lettuce and what the American consumer pays for said head of lettuce.  No way the farmer or field workers would ever see that nickle raise.  It'd go into other pockets.

 

That's a terrible analogy but what can be expected from a rabbit.:shrug:

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My father was in MENSA but I always thought of this stuff as hokey and a waste of time. Where did you go to school, what did you study, how is your career going? These all have more meaning that an IQ test score. 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, UNLV2001 said:

More reality than anything - Waitresses & service workers make a pretty good $$ in Vegas compared to their old home towns - And the 2nd reality is that most service jobs & casino jobs don't even require a HS diploma :shrug:    So those who don't have formal education can still make a good $$ in Vegas compared to Salina KS

Whether or not what you said was elitist, this is a fact. A non-college educated sister of a good friend of mine moved to LV many years ago and became a blackjack dealer on the Strip. She would frequently get bigger tips from a single customer than a waitress in Buggtussle would make in an entire 8-hour shift.

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Looks like it maps pretty great with a map of median household income combined with number of english is the native language households. entirely unsurprising.

The IQ test is... a poor metric. When an hour of studying right before the test can bump it up by 10-20 points, you know you're not measuring what it purports to measure. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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10 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No, not everybody is given the same violin lessons. That doesn’t change the question of how well do you play the violin. The metric is not flawed and should not be jiggered with to find a preferred outcome. It’s the misuse of the metric where problems arise, though I’m not sure where IQ is still used as a valuable metric other than academic studies and maybe the military.

An IQ test isn't a competence test. It's much different than auditioning for a music program. Furthermore, using an audition for a school like Juilliard would be an incredibly flawed metric to judge musical intelligence. Virtuosity and genius are not the same thing. Not even close. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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9 hours ago, Mano said:

Yes, and what it gauges is not necessarily intelligence.

You know, this is a really interesting point. To what extent does it only gauge intelligence because it exists and purports to offer a metric for intelligence? That's how the whole social construction thing starts, after all. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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21 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Looks like it maps pretty great with a map of median household income combined with number of english is the native language households. entirely unsurprising.

The IQ test is... a poor metric. When an hour of studying right before the test can bump it up by 10-20 points, you know you're not measuring what it purports to measure. 

All metrics are poor. If I didn't have to spend the day trying to solve a 120 year old murder mystery, I would be looking for research on the history if the IQ test itself and its role in framing discourse on intelligence. I bet there's some good stuff out there. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Maybe the test should be entirely spatial recognition which has little to do with prior learning. In any regard aren’t some IQ tests geared to the very young that haven’t gone through the education process. 

Ive watched my young grand kids and some of the new “educational toys” they have. The ability to build or use them correctly differs from kid to kid. One of my grandsons is interesting. He can solve relatively tough building block type toys for a preschool kid but doesn’t speak well for his age. 

My son in his toddler years could read and put full sentences together at two or three while it took much longer for my daughter. 

In short I think you can spot inherent intelligence differences at a very young age that has little to do with education and culture. Whether some IQ tests do that and how they are used is debatable. 

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45 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

All metrics are poor. If I didn't have to spend the day trying to solve a 120 year old murder mystery, I would be looking for research on the history if the IQ test itself and its role in framing discourse on intelligence. I bet there's some good stuff out there. 

It will not shock you to discover that a test that purports to discover your intelligence, as if intelligence is something fixed, inherent, and not trainable, has a significant role in the eugenics movement.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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1 hour ago, happycamper said:

The IQ test is... a poor metric. When an hour of studying right before the test can bump it up by 10-20 points, you know you're not measuring what it purports to measure. 

It's a poor metric because it has no purpose.

edit: or if it does, it shouldn't

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54 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

You know, this is a really interesting point. To what extent does it only gauge intelligence because it exists and purports to offer a metric for intelligence? That's how the whole social construction thing starts, after all. 

It gages what its initial creators wanted to be intelligence. hence why academic achievement tends to correlate so heavily with scores...

It falls victim to what I call the engineer's fallacy. Engineers tend to study and work so hard on single problems or similar sets of problems that they get way, way better at solving those problems than anyone else. They then think that because they're super smart at x, then they're super smart at a-z. You could see it in Ben Carson's response to "dude why would you lead HUD?" and his answer was "look I spent 12 years learning to be a NEUROSURGEON so obviously I can learn how to lead HUD". 

We as a society don't really have the cultural memes that indicate that being measurably intelligent isn't the same as having relevant experience and expertise and that all 3 of those are not armor against having incredibly terrible takes. I mean... we use "rocket scientist" as a placeholder for intelligence and the most famous rocket scientist was a nazi and the second most famous rocket scientist tried to bring about the antichrist with manic drug induced desert +++++ magic and who lost his girlfriend to L Ron Hubbard. 

 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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16 minutes ago, happycamper said:

It will not shock you to discover that a test that purports to discover your intelligence, as if intelligence is something fixed, inherent, and not trainable, has a significant role in the eugenics movement.

People who like to measure things think that that you have to first define the thing before you measure it. But it's actually the other way around.

1. Let's measure intelligence.

2. Well, what is intelligence? We must know what it is to measure it.

3. Our experts on intelligence have found that intelligence is a combination of A, B and C. 

4. Our experts have compiled a series of tests that measure A, B and C, and thus measure intelligence. 

5. If you take the test, you can measure your intelligence.

6. Intelligence is now by definition how you scored on this test. 

7. We now can pursue policies that helps our society become more intelligent!

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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