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soupslam1

Average IQ by State

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Isn't true IQ supposed to be independent of education? 

I believe it is difficult to construct an IQ test that is not biased towards highly educated and without cultural biases built in.

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10 minutes ago, Mano said:

Isn't true IQ supposed to be independent of education? 

I believe it is difficult to construct an IQ test that is not biased towards highly educated and without cultural biases built in.

IQ scores for the past decade actually factor in race, sex and education level.

A black woman who finishes with the same amount of correct answers in the same amount of time without a college degree will be calculated as slightly higher than a white man with a degree.

 

 

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Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said:

IQ scores for the past decade actually factor in race, sex and education level.

 

I am sure the better ones attempt to, and are likely better than those from the past.

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8 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

IQ scores for the past decade actually factor in race, sex and education level.

A black woman who finishes with the same amount of correct answers in the same amount of time without a college degree will be calculated as slightly higher than a white man with a degree.

 

 

Doubt they include all cultures and races.  For example, Pacific Islanders would not be a big group.  How do you do a test for all cultures and races?   hmmm

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11 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

IQ scores for the past decade actually factor in race, sex and education level.

A black woman who finishes with the same amount of correct answers in the same amount of time without a college degree will be calculated as slightly higher than a white man with a degree.

I get the education gap but what’s with the race and sex?

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1 minute ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I get the education gap but what’s with the race and sex?

Modern test formula.  No clue the reasoning.  To hazard a guess I would expect it is to counter culture stereotypes such as boys being more hands on and girls being better at reading and writing.

 

  

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7 minutes ago, Billings said:

Doubt they include all cultures and races.  For example, Pacific Islanders would not be a big group.  How do you do a test for all cultures and races?   hmmm

It's basically white and not white.

IQ tests are very flawed.  @youngredbullfan can expand on it.  Even though most modern IQ tests attempt to factor external factors they still fail.

IQ tests will almost always favor kids with good routines, sleep schedules, house dynamics, that like to read and are engaged in good schools.  This will of course disadvantage groups that suffer disproportionately in all those factors due to systemic racism and it's legacy.

 

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7 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

It's basically white and not white.

IQ tests are very flawed.  @youngredbullfan can expand on it.  Even though most modern IQ tests attempt to factor external factors they still fail.

IQ tests will almost always favor kids with good routines, sleep schedules, house dynamics, that like to read and are engaged in good schools.  This will of course disadvantage groups that suffer disproportionately in all those factors due to systemic racism and it's legacy.

 

That doesn’t make the test flawed. I haven’t been rigorously trained to play violin, that doesn’t mean Juilliard’s test for acceptance is flawed. 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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8 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

That doesn’t make the test flawed. I haven’t been rigorously trained to play violin, that doesn’t mean Juilliard’s test for acceptance is flawed. 

It's more if you had been rigorously trained to play the violin, how would you have done?  Or if you were trained by a bad instructor?

This is most prevalent IMO with the word association portion of IQ tests, especially for kids.  Spatial recognition is spatial recognition, not really biased.  Mathematical and numerical pattern recognition and problems solving is impacted by quality of education to an extent.  Word association and word patterns are highly dependent on time spent reading IMHO.

The problem with IQ tests, especially for kids, is that assumptions can be made that should not be.  Not everybody is given the same violin lessons.  

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Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said:

It's more if you had been rigorously trained to play the violin, how would you have done?  Or if you were trained by a bad instructor?

This is most prevalent IMO with the word association portion of IQ tests, especially for kids.  Spatial recognition is spatial recognition, not really biased.  Mathematical and numerical pattern recognition and problems solving is impacted by quality of education to an extent.  Word association and word patterns are highly dependent on time spent reading IMHO.

The problem with IQ tests, especially for kids, is that assumptions can be made that should not be.  Not everybody is given the same violin lessons.  

No, not everybody is given the same violin lessons. That doesn’t change the question of how well do you play the violin. The metric is not flawed and should not be jiggered with to find a preferred outcome. It’s the misuse of the metric where problems arise, though I’m not sure where IQ is still used as a valuable metric other than academic studies and maybe the military.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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26 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

That doesn’t make the test flawed. I haven’t been rigorously trained to play violin, that doesn’t mean Juilliard’s test for acceptance is flawed. 

Raw intelligence is different than accumulated knowledge. 

The flaw is what is being measured. 

 

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6 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No, not everybody is given the same violin lessons. That doesn’t change the question of how well do you play the violin. The metric is not flawed and should not be jiggered with to find a preferred outcome. It’s the misuse of the metric where problems arise, though I’m not sure where IQ is still used as a valuable metric other than academic studies and maybe the military.

 

IQ tests are meant to judge intelligence based on one's reasoning ability, to gauge aptitude.  The IQ test fails to capture said aptitude fairly, which would be the potential to reason, in too large a population.

It's flawed.

 

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21 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No, not everybody is given the same violin lessons. That doesn’t change the question of how well do you play the violin. The metric is not flawed and should not be jiggered with to find a preferred outcome. It’s the misuse of the metric where problems arise, though I’m not sure where IQ is still used as a valuable metric other than academic studies and maybe the military.

I know some school districts that use it to qualify kids for special ed services. I think that is poor practice imho

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13 minutes ago, Mano said:

Raw intelligence is different than accumulated knowledge. 

The flaw is what is being measured. 

 

Where is the flaw? Got a lot of lamb skin diplomas hanging on walls on this board that says there isn’t a flaw in that metric for the latter.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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5 minutes ago, Billings said:

I know some school districts that use it to qualify kids for special ed services. I think that is poor practice imho

That’s a fair point. But barring a Mama Gump type intervention, mightn’t we expect to see the kids on the margins be able to advance out of those special ed classes with the extra attention they receive, especially if they aren’t getting it at home? Just spitballing, education is complicated. Maybe the metric is a useful measure in that instance.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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21 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

IQ tests are meant to judge intelligence based on one's reasoning ability, to gauge aptitude.  The IQ test fails to capture said aptitude fairly, which would be the potential to reason, in too large a population.

It's flawed.

How does it fail to gauge the aptitude fairly? It gauges what it gauges.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Where is the flaw? Got a lot of lamb skin diplomas hanging on walls on this board that says there isn’t a flaw in that metric for the latter.

The flaw is that raw intelligence is not measured, but rather knowledge that may correlate differently to IQ based on cultural and environmental differences.

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2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

How does it fail to gauge the aptitude fairly? It gauges what it gauges.

Yes, and what it gauges is not necessarily intelligence.

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