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toonkee

Cancel Culture is the Child of Money is Speech

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6 minutes ago, mugtang said:

trump fake news GIF
 

The emoji wars were fought over the idiot button. Which I won but then decided to add back anyway. 

Or, if I was blues, I would point out that you don't know what you're talking about re: why wars were faught. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Think I gotta side with @toonkee here.  The social media companies are doing what they think is best for their brand in the long run and trying to get on the good graces of the majority party to stop the repeal of 230.

It was a business decision.  I don't like it, but I get it.

Merkel's thoughts were scary af.  She blasted twitter and facebook but not because she is pro free speech.  She blasted them because only the government should have that kind of power.  :suicide:

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Just now, smltwnrckr said:

Again, they intersect and operate independently. I don't believe the blacklists were imposed by the state. And a lot of research on the witch scares show that those were much more cultural phenomena than state phenomena.

But you know, they deserved it.

bruh are you serious right now? both had the state's hands all over them. 

The blacklists started after 10 writers and directors were cited for contempt of congress after they didn't testify in front of HUAC. The FBI directly provided files to the periodical Counterattack, to list off "red sympathizers". The blacklist continued to grow as HUAC called on film industry workers to testify - those who did not, or who were identified as Communists, or who took the fifth were blacklisted. 

Witch trials were performed explicitly by the state. That's, uh, why they were called trials. The punishments were possible because they took on the clothes and garb of the rule of law. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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6 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

He didn't make bluerules011?

he'd previously told mug that if mug banned him, blues would respect it. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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48 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Think I gotta side with @toonkee here.  The social media companies are doing what they think is best for their brand in the long run and trying to get on the good graces of the majority party to stop the repeal of 230.

It was a business decision.  I don't like it, but I get it.

Merkel's thoughts were scary af.  She blasted twitter and facebook but not because she is pro free speech.  She blasted them because only the government should have that kind of power.  :suicide:

But the op said that one causes the other. That's not the case. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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48 minutes ago, happycamper said:

bruh are you serious right now? both had the state's hands all over them. 

The blacklists started after 10 writers and directors were cited for contempt of congress after they didn't testify in front of HUAC. The FBI directly provided files to the periodical Counterattack, to list off "red sympathizers". The blacklist continued to grow as HUAC called on film industry workers to testify - those who did not, or who were identified as Communists, or who took the fifth were blacklisted. 

Witch trials were performed explicitly by the state. That's, uh, why they were called trials. The punishments were possible because they took on the clothes and garb of the rule of law. 

Bruh, do you not understand what I mean when i say "intersect and operate independently?" The enforcement of laws re free speech reflect cultural norms,  especially in a world where the first amendment exists. The things we're allowed to say publicly now were not and will not be eternal. McCarthyism happens because of cultural norms much more than because of the state. Shit, the state didnt even enforce those norms in most cases. It just acted as the sunshine. If someone was accused of being a communist sympathizer today by a senator, no one would care. Because the liberalization if free speech values has grown in a mutually constitutive way with the liberalizarion of first amendment law. You dont have one without the other. 

And again, go read actual books about the witch trials. The state actions followed collective moral imposition. The state doesn't act in a vacuum.

Neither of those happen if speech is collectively understood as a value in and of itself. Or at least it's harder for them to happen. This isnt that difficult. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

Bruh, do you not understand what I mean when i say "intersect and operate independently?" The enforcement of laws re free speech reflect cultural norms,  especially in a world where the first amendment exists. The things we're allowed to say publicly now were not and will not be eternal. McCarthyism happens because of cultural norms much more than because of the state. Shit, the state didnt even enforce those norms in most cases. It just acted as the sunshine. If someone was accused of being a communist sympathizer today by a senator, no one would care. Because the liberalization if free speech values has grown in a mutually constitutive way with the liberalizarion of first amendment law. You dont have one without the other. 

And again, go read actual books about the witch trials. The state actions followed collective moral imposition. The state doesn't act in a vacuum.

Neither of those happen if speech is collectively understood as a value in and of itself. Or at least it's harder for them to happen. This isnt that difficult. 

No man. You're taking the Hollywood Blacklist, something which started because of state action, took its cues from state action, and was informed by the State, and comparing it to a nebulous idea that brands tend to drop sexual predators. The connection is so tenuous I'm surprised it came from you. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Am I the only person that finds it ironic when people go on the highest rated show (Tucker Carlson) on the highest rated news network and complain that they have been canceled and that their ideas are being suppressed? 

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9 minutes ago, happycamper said:

No man. You're taking the Hollywood Blacklist, something which started because of state action, took its cues from state action, and was informed by the State, and comparing it to a nebulous idea that brands tend to drop sexual predators. The connection is so tenuous I'm surprised it came from you. 

No, you compared it to dropping sexual predators. It's almost as if you're arguing in bad faith here.

The state was the mechanism to 'out' the people. The industry did the black listing. Yes, the state actions to do that made it worse. Its contemptible. But the careers were ruined by their peers more than by the state. 

You seem to be arguing that blacklists are ok as long as they are private, and using an example of sexual predators as the representative for all people who lose their jobs or a spot alin a college. Again, doesn't seem to me like you're arguing in good faith here. 

Oh, and I was ok with that dipshit at google getting fired for his dumb screed about diversity training a few yesda back. See? Not that hard to have a complicated position.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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6 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Am I the only person that finds it ironic when people go on the highest rated show (Tucker Carlson) on the highest rated news network and complain that they have been canceled and that their ideas are being suppressed? 

No. Its stupid. It's the reason smart guys like @happycamper get mad at me for my position. Guys like tucker and charlie Kirk have poisoned the well.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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