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Maji

Biden Policy Agenda Thread

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3 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Because people having kids because they feel it’s a little more affordable are exactly the same as people having kids just for $300 a month. What a bullshit talking point. 

Oh stop it you big baby. 

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1 hour ago, renoskier said:

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

 

*Too long for me. I'd grant immediate citizenship to any unauthorized immigrant paying taxes (including state), so long as they pass a background check. I'd also grant immediate citizenship to any of their dependents under 23

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1 minute ago, Maji said:

Too long for me. I'd grant immediate citizenship to any unauthorized immigrant paying taxes, so long as they pass a background check. I'd also grant immediate citizenship to any of their dependents under 21.

IMO, to make it much shorter isn't fair to all those who waited years to emigrate legally.

I would be fine with a shorter time frame for "dreamers".

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9 minutes ago, renoskier said:

IMO, to make it much shorter isn't fair to all those who waited years to emigrate legally.

That type of thinking makes everyone suffer. I used to agree with you until I realized how difficult legal immigration is.

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11 minutes ago, Maji said:

That type of thinking makes everyone suffer. I used to agree with you until I realized how difficult legal immigration is.

This is what we should work on but don't reward folks who came or stayed illegally.

Besides, as long as we are allowing them to stay and work on some type of permit, what's the hurry? Let them earn it.

American citizenship should be cherished...to bad some stupid Trumpanzees don't feel the same.

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On 1/14/2021 at 11:29 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

@sactowndog Bruh, I have been in and out of the lowest 10%.  I was raised by a single mom making $7 an hour.  I became part of a community where the average income was 300 bucks a month, made illegally.  

The poorest of the poor absolutely use making babies as a way to raise themselves from starvation to being able to barely make it.  To suggest otherwise is ignorant of the plight of severe poverty.  Your privilege is showing.

I've seen it first hand.  I have seen single mothers addicted to drugs get pregnant for the extra money, and pawn their kids off on their relatives while illegally keeping the money.  I've seen the $600 in food stamps being traded for $400.

Extra credits for kids helps and hurts but would be far less helpful than just a UBI.

UBI is by far the best way forward.

Every program ever is going to have graft. I think it's weird to badmouth a program based on the idea that someone, somewhere, will take advantage contrary to the spirit. If the program ends up reducing childhood poverty by anywhere near as much as advertised, isn't the miniscule amount of malfeasance part of the cost? 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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22 minutes ago, renoskier said:

This is what we should work on but don't reward folks who came or stayed illegally.

Any specifics? Under your system, is the legal immigration process easier than Biden's pathway to citizenship (for undocumented immigrants)? If not, your barriers to immigration are still too stringent. 

22 minutes ago, renoskier said:

American citizenship should be cherished.

I agree. But we can't prevent reform anytime it's subjectively "unfair" to someone. Life isn't always fair. We should improve society.

Under stringent "fairness" standards, reforming legal immigration is unfair.

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26 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Besides, as long as we are allowing them to stay and work on some type of permit, what's the hurry?

Quote

"five-year path to temporary legal status, or a green card, if they pass background checks, pay taxes and fulfill other basic requirements"

https://apnews.com/article/biden-8-year-citizenship-path-immigrants-4f2dffdb7a688e1e126a62a8acd59730

It doesn't seem like deportations will completely stop. There are benefits to being a citizen too. Unauthorized immigrants are subjected to discrimination & workplace abuse.

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4 minutes ago, Maji said:

Any specifics? Under your system, is the legal immigration process easier than Biden's pathway to citizenship (for undocumented immigrants)? If not, your barriers to immigration are too stringent. 

I agree. But we can't prevent reform anytime it's subjectively "unfair" to someone. Life isn't always fair. We should improve society.

Under stringent "fairness" standards, reforming legal immigration is unfair.

I think Biden's proposal for a path to citizenship for those who are already here, illegally, is fine. That's my opinion. 

A separate issue is our current immigration system and whether or not it's too restrictive. I believe it is and should be reformed. I don't know if that's part of Biden's current proposal but is something that should be considered. 

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7 minutes ago, Maji said:

It doesn't seem like deportations will completely stop. And there are benefits to being a citizen. Unauthorized immigrants are subjected to workplace abuse too.

Should deportations completely stop? I don't think so, break the law...bye bye.

And if unauthorized immigrants had work permits, they would be much safer from "workplace abuse".

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27 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Should deportations completely stop? I don't think so....

And if unauthorized immigrants had work permits, they would be much safer from "workplace abuse".

EDIT:

I'm saying re: "allowing them to stay and work."

Re: work permits, I don't see Biden's proposal giving them immediately, although I may have missed it.

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12 minutes ago, renoskier said:

I think Biden's proposal for a path to citizenship for those who are already here, illegally, is fine. That's my opinion. 

It's fine. Biden's proposal is an improvement over Trump's immigration stance. It's also better political strategy than my proposal. 

Can't expect perfection. I'm just noting my policy disagreement

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31 minutes ago, renoskier said:

I think Biden's proposal for a path to citizenship for those who are already here, illegally, is fine. That's my opinion. 

A separate issue is our current immigration system and whether or not it's too restrictive. I believe it is and should be reformed. I don't know if that's part of Biden's current proposal but is something that should be considered. 

People should not have to be constrained by national borders like they have always been.  Think about all the people who are now working remotely.  Wouldn't it be a benefit to them to be able to move to Mexico or other parts of Latin America as long as they can pass a background check and pay their taxes?

People tend to think of it as a system where the USA tries to keep people out.  People like me see these unnatural command and control national borders as a way to rob me of my freedom to move.  

If people can't afford to live in the USA they will leave...just like Californians are leaving to find more affordable places to live.  Furthermore, the USA really needs low skilled and younger immigrants right now.  

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45 minutes ago, Akkula said:

People should not have to be constrained by national borders like they have always been.  Think about all the people who are now working remotely.  Wouldn't it be a benefit to them to be able to move to Mexico or other parts of Latin America as long as they can pass a background check and pay their taxes?

People tend to think of it as a system where the USA tries to keep people out.  People like me see these unnatural command and control national borders as a way to rob me of my freedom to move.  

If people can't afford to live in the USA they will leave...just like Californians are leaving to find more affordable places to live.  Furthermore, the USA really needs low skilled and younger immigrants right now.  

people haven't "always" been constrained by national borders. that's a fairly modern invention. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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1 hour ago, Maji said:

EDIT:

I'm saying re: "allowing them to stay and work."

Re: work permits, I don't see Biden's proposal giving them immediately, although I may have missed it.

My assumption is that they would need some type of documentation, something which grants fewer rights than a green card. 

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