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Biden Administration Inaguration Thread

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1 minute ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

It's very clear where time, resources and campaign issues would be allocated and geared towards.  The metro areas of the North East and the metros of the MidWest.

Election2012tippedmore.jpg

 

There are issues that are held favorable in these areas that would are not to rural communities.

The EC forces candidates to moderate in the general.  It forces candidates to run on a wider variety of issues.  They have to campaign to the cities still, they have to campaign to rural America still.  They have to campaign to the burbs.  To black voters.  Hell, even Trump tried win black voters with promises with loans and lofty economic promises.  Winning black voters was a key strategy of Bidens because of important the large cities in the key swing states are, but he also had to walk back some of his views further from center.

 

Yea... but what would the policy platform be that would unite all people in large metro areas that would deliver the 75-80 million votes needed to win a general election? 

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4 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

@Majihow do you reconcile your oft stated fears of populism with wanting a voting system that would enshrine it for both parties?  Economic populism geared towards the largest cities would become the issue for both parties, with each trying to outdo the other.

Rural residents are susceptible to populism too. Just look at the overwhelming margins Trump won in some rural and exurban communities. I don't see populism going away under either system

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4 minutes ago, Maji said:

Rural residents are susceptible to populism too. Just look at the overwhelming margins Trump won in some rural and exurban communities. I don't see populism going away under either system

It's not the residents per se, it's the politicians.  This would cement and accelerate populism.  

 

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5 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Yea... but what would the policy platform be that would unite all people in large metro areas that would deliver the 75-80 million votes needed to win a general election? 

Metro areas don't vote as a block either. Urban cities are quite blue, whereas exurbs usually vote for Republicans. The suburbs are swingy. All those are typically in the same media market.

Here's the Atlanta media market, for example:

20210113_001606.jpg

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7 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Yea... but what would the policy platform be that would unite all people in large metro areas that would deliver the 75-80 million votes needed to win a general election? 

Lofty economic promises, geared towards them would be a start.  Gun control would be more popular on both sides.  Carbon reduction emissions being target more fiercely would become more popular with both sides.  In a swing state candidates are forced to try and stop the bleeding or do somewhat better in areas unfavorable to them.  They have to campaign to dairy farms and black voters in Atlanta.  We saw this especially this election.

It was wise to fear the mob.
Well over half the population lives in a top 50 Metro.


 

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1 minute ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Lofty economic promises, geared towards them would be a start.  Gun control would be more popular on both sides.  Carbon reduction emissions being target more fiercely would become more popular with both sides.  In a swing state candidates are forced to try and stop the bleeding or do somewhat better in areas unfavorable to them.  They have to campaign to dairy farms and black voters in Atlanta.  We saw this especially this election.

It was wise to fear the mob.
Well over half the population lives in a top 50 Metro.


 

How are they going to make lofty economic promises to the rich voters, middle class suburban voters, and working class urban voters? To look at one of the most talked about things in every election ever, are you taxing more? Ok, you lost the rich and a lot of suburban voters. Are you not and cutting spending? Ok, you lost the working class voters. 

And the top 50 metro areas are a pretty damn diverse group of places. One party is going to clean up in NYC (#1), Birmingham AL (#50), and everything in between? 

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17 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

It's not the residents per se, it's the politicians.  This would cement and accelerate populism.  

 

It's the residents too. Rural and exurban Republicans aren't committed to laissez-faire conservatism. Economic populism and cultural conservatism thrives in many of those areas. They don't cry about the government interfering in the market when farms are subsidized. When a minimum wage increase is put on the ballot, rural areas often support it by clear margins. Now, I'm not saying either of those policies are populist on their own. It's merely an example that rural areas aren't committed to traditional GOP values.

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2 minutes ago, Maji said:

It's the residents too. Rural and exurban Republicans aren't committed to conservatism. Economic populism and cultural conservatism thrives in many of those areas. They don't cry about the government interfering in the market when farms are subsidized. When a minimum wage increase is put on the ballot, rural areas often support it by clear margins. Now, I'm not saying either of those policies are populist on their own. It's merely an example that rural areas aren't committed to traditional GOP values.

 

You simply can not marry wanting to rid a check on targeted populism and wanting to accelerate and make it more extreme by going to a popular vote.

I mean, we just saw a competition to out buy black votes and you think they were somehow less catered to than Joe's in Preston.

 

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12 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

How are they going to make lofty economic promises to the rich voters, middle class suburban voters, and working class urban voters? To look at one of the most talked about things in every election ever, are you taxing more? Ok, you lost the rich and a lot of suburban voters. Are you not and cutting spending? Ok, you lost the working class voters. 

And the top 50 metro areas are a pretty damn diverse group of places. One party is going to clean up in NYC (#1), Birmingham AL (#50), and everything in between? 

 

The overwhelming majority of large metros are Democrat.  The larger the metro, the more blue, generally.

Yes, you would absolutely see campaigns cater to rural voters less.

As I mentioned earlier, only 5 of the worlds 28 freest democracies use pure plurality voting and those are countries far less diverse of needs than the US.  Winning a presidential campaign is hard in the USA.  You have to attempt to appeal to a broad range of needs.  

Most countries that use pure plurality voting are not in a great spot.  Only 5 are.  See Nigeria, I bet those rural states wish that power was not so centralized in the major cities.  Where politicians ONLY focus, in that country.  Meanwhile Boko Haram slaughters them in the hundreds and they starve.  Think they would welcome something like the EC?

These are the countries that have a popular vote.  Not exactly a ringing endorsement,

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

You simply can not marry wanting to rid a check on targeted populism and wanting to accelerate and make it more extreme by going to a popular vote.

I don't agree with your take. Both systems are susceptible to populism.

11 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I mean, we just saw a competition to out buy black votes and you think they were somehow less catered to than Joe's in Preston.

The GOP didn't make a serious effort at winning African American voters. They made a lazy effort by posting an economic plan for African American investment. Did Trump campaign on it in cities with a prominent African American population? No. He didn't step foot in Atlanta. He didn't visit African American towns in the black belt. How many of them knew about Trump’s half-baked proposal?

Trump put no effort into convincing voters that the proposal was anything but another one of his absurd lies. It was as convincing as the promise that Mexico would pay for the border wall

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3 minutes ago, Maji said:

I don't agree with your take. Both systems are susceptible to populism.

The GOP didn't make a serious effort at winning African American voters. They made a lazy effort by posting an economic plan for African American investment on Trump’s website. Did Trump campaign on it in cities with a prominent African American population? No. He didn't step foot in Atlanta. He didn't visit African American towns in the black belt. How many of them knew about Trump’s half-baked proposal? Trump put little effort into convincing voters that the proposal was anything but another one of his ludicrous lies

 

Trump's campaign absolutely did try and bridge the black voter gap. https://www.npr.org/2020/08/14/902236623/trump-campaign-trying-to-win-over-black-voters-but-president-remains-a-tough-sel

They just did a poor job of it.  Biden and Kamala campaigned hard on the Black vote as well.  Yes, they received a lot of attention this voting cycle.  

 

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5 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

As I mentioned earlier, only 5 of the worlds 28 freest democracies use pure plurality voting

Parliamentary systems can still be fairly representative. That system has its own set of pros and cons too though.

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13 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

If I was trying to earn the support of African Americans, I'd spend time campaigning in the areas many of them live. Opening field offices isn't enough. Endorsements aren't enough

It wasn't a strong effort

 

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5 minutes ago, Maji said:

If I was trying to win more African American voters, I'd actually spend some time campaigning in the areas many of them live. Opening field offices isn't enough. Endorsements aren't enough.

Why would African Americans believe Trump’s economic proposals if Trump isn't willing to step foot in their cities? And let's not get started on the racist rhetoric Trump has already used.

He held several rallies in Milwaukee.  Key city in a battleground state where the largest demographic is black.

He never thought Georgia was in play and it bit him.  Trump not being trustworthy and black voters knowing that does not mean they were disproportionately ignored compared to white voters this election cycle as a whole.  Shoot, race relations issues are what won the election for Biden.  Their voices were heard loud and clear.

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9 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

He held several rallies in Milwaukee.  Key city in a battleground state where the largest demographic is black.

He never thought Georgia was in play and it bit him. 

Trump's own campaign staff warned him about Georgia down the stretch. He visited Georgia multiple times in the last few weeks, but he never visited Atlanta or one of the diverse suburbs (that I recall)

You can't visit one city in the Midwest and call things good

9 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Shoot, race relations issues are what won the election for Biden.  Their voices were heard loud and clear.

It played a part. The reason Biden won is that he outperformed HRC in the suburbs. That included gains with white suburban voters. Many of those voters dislike racist rhetoric

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Just now, Maji said:

Trump's own campaign staff warned him about Georgia down the stretch. He visited Georgia multiple times in the last few weeks, but he never visited Atlanta or one of the diverse suburbs (that I recall)

You can't visit one city in the Midwest and call things good

It played a part. The reason Biden won is that he outperformed HRC in the suburbs. That included gains with white suburban voters

 

Yes, the EC and knowing what it would take to win it forced the DNC to "break glass in case of emergency" and rally to deny the populist sentiment in their party.  We agree.  Biden had to further moderate from his primary campaign for the general.  

Since we are talking about Georgia.  The black voices were heard.  https://www.newyorker.com/news/campaign-chronicles/trump-and-the-gop-lost-georgia-and-black-voters-won-it

There is simply no argument to be had that black voters received disproportionately less attention this election cycle than any other demographic.  They did not.  From the primary to the general, race relations and black poverty was the biggest talking point behind only COVID.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Since we are talking about Georgia.  The black voices were heard.  https://www.newyorker.com/news/campaign-chronicles/trump-and-the-gop-lost-georgia-and-black-voters-won-it

Black voters still don't have much of a say in the South, despite being a significant portion of the population. Georgia represents a breakthrough. It's uniquely favorable to the Democrats

Screenshot_20210113-011649_Firefox Beta.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Maji said:

Black voters still don't have much of a say in the South, despite being a significant portion of the population. Georgia represents a breakthrough. It's uniquely favorable to the Democrats

Screenshot_20210113-011649_Firefox Beta.jpg

 

Yes but because of the diversity of the swing states, they were still campaigned towards.  How are you not getting this?

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4 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

There is simply no argument to be had that black voters received disproportionately less attention this election cycle than any other demographic.  They did not.

Except that's not really what I'm saying. My point is that giving extra power to small, predominantly white states empowers those voters. That doesn't mean African Americans are completely ignored in swing states.

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8 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Yes but because of the diversity of the swing states, they were still campaigned towards.  How are you not getting this?

Some of them aren't particularly diverse (relative to nation as a whole). Georgia certainly is diverse.

 

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