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BSUTOP25

Need advice for dealing with a family member who is in a cult

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1 minute ago, BSUTOP25 said:

It’s a delicate situation. Last thing I want to do is make things worse for her. So I’m trying to be careful and offering myself as a safe option to come to if she needs support.

Everyone should be so lucky as to have family like you, my friend.

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16 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Okay, let’s please leave the Trump stuff off this thread as I have a legit request for some advice.

My cousin married this Australian guy who belongs to some uber charismatic church in Sydney. They’re really into this end times doctrine, as in it’s pretty much the majority of their message/sermons. 

I realized the guy was pretty far out there when, a few days before their wedding, he was making a point in conversation about faith healings and how chemotherapy was demonic poison  that robbed people who don’t believe enough of divine cures, knowing full well my first wife died of breast cancer. I tried as hard as I could to respond politely to not cause an issue so close to the wedding. Basically did the old “let’s agree to disagree.”

Anyway, he’s recently been going off on Facebook about these vaccines being the 666 mark of the beast, and how people are dying from them left and right. I made the mistake of calling out one of his ridiculous posts re a nurse in Chattanooga (Tiffany Dover) who passed out right after being inoculated, where he and all his nutter pals were grotesquely using her as an example of someone who died ... but she’s actually alive and I posted several verifiable links to prove it. After a few days of him changing the goal posts, he finally conceded that she is alive but it didn’t sit well with him.

Anyway, he followed up tonight on Messenger with some more stupid links from nut jobs about how deadly the vaccines are and how they’re being used to usher in the antichrist. I thanked him but made it clear I’m getting vaccinated, this obviously didn’t go over well. He then went on another rant about the vaccine (as if there is only one) is the mark of the beast with patent number 666 and a bunch of other gibberish .. that my eternity was at risk. Taking the vaccine is going to condemn me to hell, yada yada. 

Where as I was at first thinking he was simply a loudmouth holy rolling zealot, I’m now legit concerned for my cousin’s safety. He is getting more aggressive on Facebook and this string of messages he sent me was straight out of bizarroland. My aunt and her husband are really worried and they don’t know what to do either, we all know my cousin is being manipulated. We, my family, all feel as if she’s being drawn away from the us and becoming more isolated with him and his church. 

Any advice from you all on what to do? He hasn’t broken any laws and my cousin appears happy with him so can’t do anything with regard to informing the police. I’m sincerely asking for advice and guidance here. Thanks! 
 

Does your cousin work outside of her home?  If not then try to persuade her to get a job with many employees.  Socializing with others in a workplace might open her eyes.  I think control freaks are like stalkers so her fellow workers may see it and convince her to dump him.      

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1 minute ago, aztech said:

Does your cousin work outside of her home?  If not then try to persuade her to get a job with many employees.  Socializing with others in a workplace might open her eyes.  I think control freaks are like stalkers so her fellow workers may see it and convince her to dump him.      

She’s a contact music teacher for kids. She interacts with other people but has no manager or coworkers. 

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14 hours ago, toonkee said:

What is she getting from this group? Acceptance, purpose? Help her find that in something healthier.

This is important.  She joined the cult because it provided them with something.  Many people want their friends/family members off of cults but don't actually want to offer them what they need.  (Or stay with them long enough to help them find it)  Then they're shocked when the person runs off.

Lastly, there's a fine line between a cult and a new religion.  Other than being misinformed (which to me is the same thing a lot of religions do), why do think there's a danger to her or society?  Does she seem happy, healthy?  Any behavioral changes?

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3 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

She’s a contact music teacher for kids. She interacts with other people but has no manager or coworkers. 

Well hopefully she grows out of her situation, nonetheless.

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2 minutes ago, WAC_FAN said:

This is important.  She joined the cult because it provided them with something.  Many people want their friends/family members off of cults but don't actually want to offer them what they need.  (Or stay with them long enough to help them find it)  Then they're shocked when the person runs off.

Lastly, there's a fine line between a cult and a new religion.  Other than being misinformed (which to me is the same thing a lot of religions do), why do think there's a danger to her or society?  Does she seem happy, healthy?  Any behavioral changes?

She married a guy who was in it. She was in a charismatic church before, called Hillsong, then switched over to his church when they got together. I haven’t been able to find out what this other church is yet. 

Regarding her behavior, she’s becoming more isolated. We hear from her a lot less nowadays. 

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17 hours ago, AndroidAggie said:

imo the only thing you can do is shoot straight with the cousin.  you'll hurt her.  she'll be pissed.  she'll cuss you out or tell you to mind your own business and piss off.  but you'll plant a seed of doubt, which is what she needs.

Toss him your wallet and then shoot him. 

 

17 hours ago, AndroidAggie said:

imo the only thing you can do is shoot straight with the cousin.  you'll hurt her.  she'll be pissed.  she'll cuss you out or tell you to mind your own business and piss off.  but you'll plant a seed of doubt, which is what she needs.

But after the outburst and she’s alone to think, hopefully she does start to have her doubts. But it can take a while to see the deep cracks start to show up on the surface to see. So never give up trying. 

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1 hour ago, BSUTOP25 said:

She married a guy who was in it. She was in a charismatic church before, called Hillsong, then switched over to his church when they got together. I haven’t been able to find out what this other church is yet. 

Regarding her behavior, she’s becoming more isolated. We hear from her a lot less nowadays. 

Dude you and your family need to fill that void and keep reaching out. I didn't understand from your OP that she was drinking the Kool-Aid as well.

St-Javelin-Sm.jpgChase.jpg 

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1 hour ago, BSUTOP25 said:

She married a guy who was in it. She was in a charismatic church before, called Hillsong, then switched over to his church when they got together. I haven’t been able to find out what this other church is yet. 

Regarding her behavior, she’s becoming more isolated. We hear from her a lot less nowadays. 

Obviously not a good sign. That can mean an abuser has 100% control of her and maybe in very poor health. She has no strength or self esteem to be able to escape. You might call the cops and ask for a wellness check on her. If she seems to be in poor health and abused, on drugs constantly, the cops they could take her in for an evaluation both physical and mental. 

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1 hour ago, BSUTOP25 said:

She married a guy who was in it. She was in a charismatic church before, called Hillsong, then switched over to his church when they got together. I haven’t been able to find out what this other church is yet. 

Regarding her behavior, she’s becoming more isolated. We hear from her a lot less nowadays. 


Definitely start by getting advice from a professional in this area.

 

Hillsong might be a good opening to have a discussion about misguided Church leaders as on of their leaders was just busted in November.  Might lead her to second guess her judgment.

 

I would also try and get other members of her family to participate.  One of the first things that might happen if things start going bad he will shut out her family, and circle the wagons around her husband/cult.  This happened when a friends cousin got involved with a cult.

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You are to be commended for caring about your cousin. Here's my two cents, but it's highly suspect as I prefer to stay at Hilton branded hotels, I haven't stayed at a Holiday inn Express in a decade or more.  

First off, I would go at this with the assumption that the marriage is going to last until death do us part.  I think there's a better chance of change in this guy's views if you love both of them, not in "winning" a debate.

When he mentioned his views on faith healing, was it in private, or just a genuine conveyance of his beliefs that you took to be personal?

Although his views are extreme, I didn't notice anything where your cousin is in danger unless she has a current health concern.  It is possible this guy's views are even more extreme than the church he's attending.  Maybe your perception of the church's unbalanced teaching towards the end times is not true in reality. The subject covers pretty much the entire book of Revelations and many others like the passages both in the Old and New testament. Maybe they were going through a lengthy study on that topic, maybe your cousin's husband has a keen interest in the topic. Maybe you can find out if the church posts sermons online, maybe there's significant good stuff you could agree with and share with him while reserving judgment to the few most significant issues. If you find a significant disconnect between Church teachings or this guy's personal beliefs versus what the Bible says, maybe you can engage in private, non-threatening, non-ego driven debate. 

Regarding his online posting of BS, I would let that go, and just converse with him in private and try to become a friend. The best case scenario is this guy's eyes are opened. Worst case, BSUTOP25 becomes a convert and convinces mug to open a Bible study/speaking in tongues subform on the MWCBOARD.

Regarding the possibility that he could be monitoring your communications with her, I would assume that either he is or that she may share what you share with her. I don't think she should feel pressure to choose between her husband, you, and the rest of the family. I wonder if she misses any of her friends at Hillsong? If she misses her former Church and friends, maybe at an appropriate time you could ask her, maybe suggest she and her husband alternate between both churches which may expose the husband to more moderate views. Although I don't know a lot about Hillsong, I doubt they are a cult.  Personal failures of a leader or personal hypocrisy doesn't change the truth that may have been taught from the pulpit.

No need to answer these questions or respond online, just tossing some things out as an online friend for you to consider.

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On 1/8/2021 at 9:30 PM, AndroidAggie said:

imo the only thing you can do is shoot straight with the cousin.  you'll hurt her.  she'll be pissed.  she'll cuss you out or tell you to mind your own business and piss off.  but you'll plant a seed of doubt, which is what she needs.

I would add to this, always leave that door open for your cousin to escape. When , and if she has had enough and wants out,  be a safe place for her. 

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On 1/8/2021 at 8:27 PM, BSUTOP25 said:

Okay, let’s please leave the Trump stuff off this thread as I have a legit request for some advice.

My cousin married this Australian guy who belongs to some uber charismatic church in Sydney. They’re really into this end times doctrine, as in it’s pretty much the majority of their message/sermons. 

I realized the guy was pretty far out there when, a few days before their wedding, he was making a point in conversation about faith healings and how chemotherapy was demonic poison  that robbed people who don’t believe enough of divine cures, knowing full well my first wife died of breast cancer. I tried as hard as I could to respond politely to not cause an issue so close to the wedding. Basically did the old “let’s agree to disagree.”

Anyway, he’s recently been going off on Facebook about these vaccines being the 666 mark of the beast, and how people are dying from them left and right. I made the mistake of calling out one of his ridiculous posts re a nurse in Chattanooga (Tiffany Dover) who passed out right after being inoculated, where he and all his nutter pals were grotesquely using her as an example of someone who died ... but she’s actually alive and I posted several verifiable links to prove it. After a few days of him changing the goal posts, he finally conceded that she is alive but it didn’t sit well with him.

Anyway, he followed up tonight on Messenger with some more stupid links from nut jobs about how deadly the vaccines are and how they’re being used to usher in the antichrist. I thanked him but made it clear I’m getting vaccinated, this obviously didn’t go over well. He then went on another rant about the vaccine (as if there is only one) is the mark of the beast with patent number 666 and a bunch of other gibberish .. that my eternity was at risk. Taking the vaccine is going to condemn me to hell, yada yada. 

Where as I was at first thinking he was simply a loudmouth holy rolling zealot, I’m now legit concerned for my cousin’s safety. He is getting more aggressive on Facebook and this string of messages he sent me was straight out of bizarroland. My aunt and her husband are really worried and they don’t know what to do either, we all know my cousin is being manipulated. We, my family, all feel as if she’s being drawn away from the us and becoming more isolated with him and his church. 

Any advice from you all on what to do? He hasn’t broken any laws and my cousin appears happy with him so can’t do anything with regard to informing the police. I’m sincerely asking for advice and guidance here. Thanks! 
 

 

How old is this guy?

How old is your cousin?

It sounds like he isn't necessarily isolating your cousin, or physically abusing her.   Also, like you said, he hasn't broken any laws.   So basically, he has extremist religious views, is very boorish and argumentative, and your cousin, like some women, are sort of prone to support their husband / adopt his views.

I'm not sure if there is much you can do.  

If he in engages with you, and wants to make these radical arguments, just tell him that you don't find his links or views persuasive, and you think it is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ (since his views are based on his Christian faith).   

You can always link the foundation of your beliefs to the Church doctrines of the Nazarene Church if he wants to argue.   Maybe the Nazarene Church has issued a statement encouraging everyone to wear masks?   Maybe he hasn't considered a view that the vaccine is a blessing from God, in response to prayers asking for a solution?   Many of the doctors / scientists working on a solution are religious, and maybe they have prayed for divine help with their efforts???   (to appeal to his religious faith)

Maybe he will become more moderate in his views.   Good luck.  Tough situation.

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On 1/8/2021 at 10:27 PM, BSUTOP25 said:

Okay, let’s please leave the Trump stuff off this thread as I have a legit request for some advice.

My cousin married this Australian guy who belongs to some uber charismatic church in Sydney. They’re really into this end times doctrine, as in it’s pretty much the majority of their message/sermons. 

I realized the guy was pretty far out there when, a few days before their wedding, he was making a point in conversation about faith healings and how chemotherapy was demonic poison  that robbed people who don’t believe enough of divine cures, knowing full well my first wife died of breast cancer. I tried as hard as I could to respond politely to not cause an issue so close to the wedding. Basically did the old “let’s agree to disagree.”

Anyway, he’s recently been going off on Facebook about these vaccines being the 666 mark of the beast, and how people are dying from them left and right. I made the mistake of calling out one of his ridiculous posts re a nurse in Chattanooga (Tiffany Dover) who passed out right after being inoculated, where he and all his nutter pals were grotesquely using her as an example of someone who died ... but she’s actually alive and I posted several verifiable links to prove it. After a few days of him changing the goal posts, he finally conceded that she is alive but it didn’t sit well with him.

Anyway, he followed up tonight on Messenger with some more stupid links from nut jobs about how deadly the vaccines are and how they’re being used to usher in the antichrist. I thanked him but made it clear I’m getting vaccinated, this obviously didn’t go over well. He then went on another rant about the vaccine (as if there is only one) is the mark of the beast with patent number 666 and a bunch of other gibberish .. that my eternity was at risk. Taking the vaccine is going to condemn me to hell, yada yada. 

Where as I was at first thinking he was simply a loudmouth holy rolling zealot, I’m now legit concerned for my cousin’s safety. He is getting more aggressive on Facebook and this string of messages he sent me was straight out of bizarroland. My aunt and her husband are really worried and they don’t know what to do either, we all know my cousin is being manipulated. We, my family, all feel as if she’s being drawn away from the us and becoming more isolated with him and his church. 

Any advice from you all on what to do? He hasn’t broken any laws and my cousin appears happy with him so can’t do anything with regard to informing the police. I’m sincerely asking for advice and guidance here. Thanks! 
 

Maybe we are all crazy and they found the truth. 

The Masters 5k road race All American.

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UPDATE: Cousin’s husband found out I was getting my first dose of the Moderna vaccine today and sent me this diagram to explain his end times mark of the beast theory....

125962C0-5681-4533-98E6-333B41EBC380.jpeg.52c87d804d0972d4a7dab4b8af06ffbe.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

UPDATE: Cousin’s husband found out I was getting my first dose of the Moderna vaccine today and sent me this diagram to explain his end times mark of the beast theory....

125962C0-5681-4533-98E6-333B41EBC380.jpeg.52c87d804d0972d4a7dab4b8af06ffbe.jpeg

Maybe my critical thinking skills are lacking, but I'm not following his train of thought from vaccines to end times. I do like his little drawing in the bottom left corner though!

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6 minutes ago, Stealthlobo said:

Maybe my critical thinking skills are lacking, but I'm not following his train of thought from vaccines to end times. I do like his little drawing in the bottom left corner though!

He’s either been brainwashed by this cult or he’s got some mental health issues going on.

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