NVGiant Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 hour ago, AndroidAggie said: spontaneous demonstrations after george floyd was murdered: - in portland it started around 5/28. over a the next two months, federal response and protest intensity kept throwing stronger and stronger punches, as it were, culminating in the end of july where the vans showed up -- as a result of federal direction. remember how portland state leaders told the feds to go away? https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2020/07/14/mayor-ted-wheeler-calls-on-federal-officers-to-leave-portland-we-do-not-need-or-want-their-help/ or remember the navy vet getting beat down by the guardsmen? - on 5/29 - 5/30 (overnight), the BLM protest that showed up in lafayette park (JUST north, like across the street, from the white house) and on white house property was likewise spontaneous and after 4 hours or so, was dispersed -- as a result of federal direction. trump even warned that 'ominous weapons' would be used the next time they showed up. when the feds had time to prepare: - 6/2 there was a major show of force on the mall, notably the lincoln memorial, in anticipation of BLM protests there. it is noteworthy that in many cases, it is legally required to get a permit to assemble on DC's federal property: https://www.acludc.org/en/permits (25 or more people). i can't track it down here, but if a BLM organizer did register before hand, there would have been even more knowledge of what to prepare for. either way, the "ominous weapons" tweet happened 2 or 3 days prior to this and you can see how the federal response to be ready for a protest went down: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-dystopian-lincoln-memorial-photo-raises-a-grim-question-will-they-protect-us-or-will-they-shoot-us/2020/06/03/7a1c52b4-a5b7-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html - 12/16 - pro trump rallies start in the capitol area. little incident. there were some fistfights between proud boys and whomever the proud boys like to fight with (take your pick) but it culminated in trump's speech to the crowds on 1//6/2021. in all that time, there was not one call to assemble the guardsmen and put the capitol on alert for the sort of reaction that was expected to be given by the BLM crowds. naturally there are a lot of threads here, and some points are more comparable than others. however, it is my observation that when a protest is perceived to be gathering, the characteristic response at the federal level has been strident when it's a BLM protest and permissive when it's pro Trump. Correct. Now, I believe this is more a function of Trump himself rather than some grand evidence of systematic racial bias. But it’s not something that should be dismissed. Because these guys are coming back, it appears. And with Trump in office, who knows if we’ll be ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndroidAggie Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, NVGiant said: Correct. Now, I believe this is more a function of Trump himself rather than some grand evidence of systematic racial bias. But it’s not something that should be dismissed. Because these guys are coming back, it appears. And with Trump in office, who knows if we’ll be ready. hm. i had not considered that. as in, what would happen if there was a seditious crowd aimed at unseating trump had he narrowly won the re-election. i would imagine his response would be close to the same as the BLM response, but i'm not quite sure. our history strongly implies white people in power have a deep seated (seeded?) distrust and fear of black folks as being violent, virile, rapacious, and uncontrollable. i have a hard time imagining it's NOT at play here. but i could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVGiant Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said: hm. i had not considered that. as in, what would happen if there was a seditious crowd aimed at unseating trump had he narrowly won the re-election. i would imagine his response would be close to the same as the BLM response, but i'm not quite sure. our history strongly implies white people in power have a deep seated (seeded?) distrust and fear of black folks as being violent, virile, rapacious, and uncontrollable. i have a hard time imagining it's NOT at play here. but i could be wrong. It very well might be. I’m not dismissing the possibility. I just think right now that President Law and Order is the simplest explanation. All I know for certain is that I don’t remember military helicopters buzzing the crowd last week like they did in DC last summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndroidAggie Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, NVGiant said: It very well might be. I’m not dismissing the possibility. I just think right now that President Law and Order is the simplest explanation. All I know for certain is that I don’t remember military helicopters buzzing the crowd last week like they did in DC last summer. fair enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modestobulldog Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 9 hours ago, UNLV2001 said: Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up with everything. What is the background on this? What got them placed on the no fly list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndroidAggie Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, modestobulldog said: Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up with everything. What is the background on this? What got them placed on the no fly list? to be honest we don't know the precise reason. ostensibly it is because the person in question was found via social media to be part of the terrorist mob that stormed the capitol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modestobulldog Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said: to be honest we don't know the precise reason. ostensibly it is because the person in question was found via social media to be part of the terrorist mob that stormed the capitol Was it just because she had went back to attend the rally, or was it that she actually went beyond barricades at the capitol? In other words, is she on the no fly list and was only a peaceful protester, or did she actually go beyond police barricades? A lot of people went to Washington DC to protest. That is a constitutional right, even if the Steal the Steal event was misguided against stupid. People should not be put on the no-fly list for dissent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Aztec Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Some of those no-fly videos are not related to DC, but are no-mask refusals. The two women handcuffed is a no-mask one. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndroidAggie Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 12 minutes ago, modestobulldog said: Was it just because she had went back to attend the rally, or was it that she actually went beyond barricades at the capitol? In other words, is she on the no fly list and was only a peaceful protester, or did she actually go beyond police barricades? A lot of people went to Washington DC to protest. That is a constitutional right, even if the Steal the Steal event was misguided against stupid. People should not be put on the no-fly list for dissent. i think there's a difference between: "seen via social media to be inside the walls of the capitol building during a violent riot that was intended to make sure the outgoing president remains in office, during which 5 people died as a result of the violence" - vs - "at the national mall protesting the vote." i suppose it's possible she was put on the no fly list for the latter, but that's just fear talking. it requires believing that the FBI is targeting people who were simply _there_, rather than people who were part of the terrorist rush into the capitol building. surely you see a difference between the two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevadaFan Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Exactly. People thinking too hard. These videos are of people acting like idiots on flights and being removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 19 minutes ago, modestobulldog said: Was it just because she had went back to attend the rally, or was it that she actually went beyond barricades at the capitol? In other words, is she on the no fly list and was only a peaceful protester, or did she actually go beyond police barricades? A lot of people went to Washington DC to protest. That is a constitutional right, even if the Steal the Steal event was misguided against stupid. People should not be put on the no-fly list for dissent. I believe it is for entering the capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modestobulldog Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said: i think there's a difference between: "seen via social media to be inside the walls of the capitol building during a violent riot that was intended to make sure the outgoing president remains in office, during which 5 people died as a result of the violence" - vs - "at the national mall protesting the vote." i suppose it's possible she was put on the no fly list for the latter, but that's just fear talking. it requires believing that the FBI is targeting people who were simply _there_, rather than people who were part of the terrorist rush into the capitol building. surely you see a difference between the two? Absolutely I do. I thought I made it clear that I think anybody who went beyond barricades, fences, or whatever other boundaries were set up are fair game to put on the no-fly list. Just curious what caused this individual to be placed on the fly list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndroidAggie Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Just now, modestobulldog said: Absolutely I do. I thought I made it clear that I think anybody who went beyond barricades, fences, or whatever other boundaries were set up are fair game to put on the no-fly list. Just curious what caused this individual to be placed on the fly list. then we have no real reason to believe it was for anything else, don't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modestobulldog Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, sactowndog said: I believe it is for entering the capital. As I mentioned I haven't kept up on everything, by capital, do you mean the capital building? My thoughts are people who went to the capital for whatever reason and stayed behind barricades and were peaceful should are fine, misguided as it may be. Anyone who entered the Capitol building should be facing serious charges. I'm not sure if people on the steps were beyond barricades or not, if they went past barricades but didn't enter the building then I think they should be cited and releai similar to the disorderly protesters we've seen over the last nine months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSUTOP25 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 This guy got put on a no fly list for storming the Capitol: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modestobulldog Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said: then we have no real reason to believe it was for anything else, don't we? Sadly, there's a lot of overreaction. I could see a scenario where somebody outed her as having attended the rally. Hopefully not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard Delecto Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 What is a "Constitutional Democracy"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrediggerPoke Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I would say that random videos without any meaningful substantiation is kind of just that. Random videos that may or may not be related to no fly lists. I’d argue that this is exactly how the Qanon and various other conspiracy theory messages are believed...someone posts a video with their particular narrative and now millions share it and further propagate the lie. I suppose it is the Twitter world we live but I sure do miss journalistic standards before purporting a fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrediggerPoke Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 10 minutes ago, Maynard Delecto said: What is a "Constitutional Democracy"? I’d argue that the United States is a Constitutional Democratic Republic. Not a true democracy nor a true republic, and, one which is further limited to and based on a supreme law of the land. Our representatives that pass laws and make decisions are typically voted in (sometimes not) through state selected methods to make decisions that pertain nationwide. The system is supposed to be guided by and limited to the US Constitution. Accordingly, there are elements of both democracy and republic in our government but not a pure system of either. Note - a pure democracy is simply everyone votes and majority rules with no limitation. Thankfully our country cannot simply vote to kill all black people or something similarly disgusting because the constitution precludes this ability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 26 minutes ago, modestobulldog said: As I mentioned I haven't kept up on everything, by capital, do you mean the capital building? My thoughts are people who went to the capital for whatever reason and stayed behind barricades and were peaceful should are fine, misguided as it may be. Anyone who entered the Capitol building should be facing serious charges. I'm not sure if people on the steps were beyond barricades or not, if they went past barricades but didn't enter the building then I think they should be cited and releai similar to the disorderly protesters we've seen over the last nine months. Seems fair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
