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retrofade

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1 hour ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Election’s over. Her house majority took it on the chin. It’s too late to campaign. 

Well they took it on the chin in that they were favored to win by like 20.5 points and only won by one touchdown instead of three. 

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11 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I mean, man is a grifter but the idea that rural America is a class of dumb lazy people, an idea pushed by the left, is going to turn people off.  We have people like Nevadafan and Spaz calling them lazy and dumb when that is far from accurate.  Too stupid to know what is good for them.

Democrats wonder why they lost the rural working class.  I read this board and it is obvious.

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Probably the group people like you mock.  And your mocking is a big reason why.  75 million people you clearly find to not be capable and if they are going through hard times, it is because they are stupid.

And you wonder why the working poor and lower middle class voted overwhelmingly for Trump.

Good people voted for both Biden and Trump. We can respect them

Both groups love America and want it to succeed, but do see our country through different lenses.

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2020/12/1/21726894/guest-opinion-election-2020-biden-trump-voters-good-people-friendship-civility-respect

 

Those who voted for Trump saw him as:

Supporting religious liberty.
Against abortion.
Maintaining the integrity of our borders.
Maintaining a strong military.
Creating a strong economy with lower taxes and reduced regulations.

In terms of Trump voters’ feelings about Biden, he was seen as too old, supporting big government and higher taxes, for abortion and not sensitive to the beliefs of those who are religious.

Those who voted for Biden saw him as:

Less divisive and more willing to bring people together.
More concerned about health care for all Americans.
Willing to confront issues of racism in our country.
Willing to deal with climate change.
More able to help the country cope with the pandemic.

In terms of Biden voters’ feelings about Trump, he was seen as too divisive and abrasive, self-centered, not very knowledgeable about key issues and lacking leadership during the pandemic.

 

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2 hours ago, NVGiant said:

I’m talking about this issue specifically. Speaking as if rural people aren’t prone to the same rhetorical nonsense is silly. Both fundamentally misunderstand each other, mainly because we’ve all self-sorted and our paths rarely cross , with some exceptions like you and me, living in our own self-selected media bubble. And you know this.

Is the left guilty of arrogance and talking down toward the rural poor? Absolutely. But rural America isn’t innocent. I’ve heard for all my life about the virtues of middle America. Yet they love Trump as much for his venom spewed at the left as for anything he has done for them. He’s a fighter after all. Just taking It to that bunch of libtards. And you know that, too. No Democrat incessantly speaks in that way about rural America the way their chosen leader speaks about the left. The closest was Hillary’s deplorable, which +++++ed her good. And yet, for all that, all the garbage thrown their way over the last four years, the left chose Biden as the leader of the Democratic Party. Not some fire-brand lefty equivalent of Trump calling segments of rural America the enemy of the people. Not a congresswoman from New York.

So, yes, there is a fundamental breakdown in understanding. We see it every day on this board whether it’s a joke about the rubes or the cheerleading of the wildfires in California. And it’s a huge problem. Huge problem. But it’s not just one way. Not even close. And rural America is no more an innocent victim than the urban left.

 
 

 

 

Do people in small rural towns speak poorly of city people and life?  Sure, a lot of them. But no, I reject the idea that rural communities are getting redder and redder because Trump is mean "as much ad anything else".  It has far more to do with not seeing the benefits of the economic recovery after the recession that cities did.  And of course the anti gun and your vehicle is destroying the planet rhetoric.  

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17 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

Do people in small rural towns speak poorly of city people and life?  Sure, a lot of them. But no, I reject the idea that rural communities are getting redder and redder because Trump is mean "as much ad anything else".  It has far more to do with not seeing the benefits of the economic recovery after the recession that cities did.  And of course the anti gun and your vehicle is destroying the planet rhetoric.  

You may refuse to believe it, but I have spent enough time with my good friends up in rural Oregon to know that they like Trump because of what he says as much as his policies. All you have to do is take a look at some of the hardcore Trumpers on this board to know that giving it to the libtards is a feature and not a bug of this president. They are just as arrogant as any of the posters you have called out.

And be dismissive if you like about gun control and climate change, as rural America is, but that only proves my point that neither side makes much of an effort to understand. I'm not a gun control guy, but when you live in a big city and see gun violence regularly the view makes more sense. And if you live on the coasts, live in smog, and choke on wildfire smoke all summer, then climate change becomes more important. Why is it somehow wrong for urban people to fight for their own interests, but it is somehow noble that rural America argue for their own?

Since we were told the country mouse had more wisdom than the city mouse, and since Madison and Jefferson built a philosophy on agrarian myths, there has been an ingrained culture that somehow rural America knows best. I say to hell with that. The country mouse might not be any worse, but he certainly was never any better.

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5 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

You may refuse to believe it, but I have spent enough time with my good friends up in rural Oregon to know that they like Trump because of what he says as much as his policies. All you have to do is take a look at some of the hardcore Trumpers on this board to know that giving it to the libtards is a feature and not a bug of this president. They are just as arrogant as any of the posters you have called out.

 

I spent most of Sunday driving back from Houston thru some seriously rural areas.  The most popular sign I saw was this one:

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

Dont think bullshit is a policy...

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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Just now, RSF said:

I spent most of Sunday driving back from Houston thru some seriously rural areas.  The most popular sign I saw was this one:

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

Dont think bullshit is a policy...

Definitely. Same deal in Eastern Oregon. 

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1 minute ago, NVGiant said:

You may refuse to believe it, but I have spent enough time with my good friends up in rural Oregon to know that they like Trump because of what he says as much as his policies. All you have to do is take a look at some of the hardcore Trumpers on this board to know that giving it to the libtards is a feature and not a bug of this president. They are just as arrogant as any of the posters you have called out.

And be dismissive if you like about gun control and climate change, as rural America is, but that only proves my point that neither side makes much of an effort to understand. I'm not a gun control guy, but when you live in a big city and see gun violence regularly the view makes more sense. And if you live on the coasts, live in smog, and choke on wildfire smoke all summer, then climate change becomes more important. Why is it somehow wrong from urban people to fight for their own interests, but it is somehow noble that rural America argue for their own?

Since we were told the country mouse had more wisdom than the city mouse, and since Madison and Jefferson built a philosophy on agrarian myths, there has been an ingrained culture that somehow rural America knows best. I say to hell with that. The country mouse might not be any worse, but he certainly was never any better.

Rural Idaho and Oregon understand wildfires suck as much as anybody.  As far as gun control, yeah I will be dismissive.  So will rural America.  

Do many of them like the mean things Trump says about the libs?  Yup.  Is that as big as any reason for rural America getting redder?  Not even close.  The Obama recovery left them behind.  That is the biggest reason.

Oh and Hamilton thought on the royal wealthy mouse had any merit.  Federalism has been the most successful expirement in how to govern men.  Sorry you disagree.

 

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4 minutes ago, RSF said:

I spent most of Sunday driving back from Houston thru some seriously rural areas.  The most popular sign I saw was this one:

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

Dont think bullshit is a policy...

Neither is "yes we can" or "hope and change".  Or "Im with her"

Its a campaign sign.  Policy does not fit.

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22 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Rural Idaho and Oregon understand wildfires suck as much as anybody. As far as gun control, yeah I will be dismissive.  So will rural America.  Thanks for proving my point here. 

Do many of them like the mean things Trump says about the libs?  Yup.  Is that as big as any reason for rural America getting redder?  Not even close.  The Obama recovery left them behind.  That is the biggest reason.

Oh and Hamilton thought on the royal wealthy mouse had any merit.  Federalism has been the most successful expirement in how to govern men.  Sorry you disagree.

 

If you're so supportive of rural America's arrogance, mocking and dismissive, then why is it incumbent on urban people to treat them with any kind of respect? And round and round we go. Hell, if the country mouse wasn't so arrogant, he'd realize that the urban poor have been left behind, too. Hell, they were left behind long before automation did away with agriculture jobs. (Trickle on economics has done wonders for urban America I'm told.) Maybe they should listen to each other rather than buying into the their leaders' efforts to scapegoat. 

And I argued against federalism? Now that is something new. Hamilton's view of federalism is a significant reason why it has been a success. Also, as I have said before, his view of America as a mercantilist society, rather than an agrarian one, is a helluva a lot closer than Jefferson's vision.

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5 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

If you're so supportive of rural America's arrogance, mocking and dismissive, then why is it incumbent on urban people to treat them with any kind of respect? And round round we go. Hell, if the country mouse wasn't so arrogant, he'd realize that the urban poor have been left behind, too. Hell, they were left behind long before automation did away with agriculture jobs. (Trickle on economics has done wonders for urban America I'm told.) Maybe they should listen to each other rather than buying into the their leaders' efforts to scapegoat. 

And I argued against federalism? Now that is something new. Hamilton's view of federalism is a significant reason why it has been a success. Also, as I have said before, his view of America as a mercantilist society, rather than an agrarian one, is a helluva a lot closer than Jefferson's vision.

Lulz at being dismisive of gun control as arrogance.

As pointed out, I stick up for urban issues all the time, so miss me with that shit.  

Your rural mouse was just whimsy?  Not a mockery of protecting small states through federalism?

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Let me get really PC here....

A good portion of rurals are either neo confederate bigots or have gun fetishes.   Strip all that away and they would be bigger communists than Castro with all of their ag subsidies. 

They define "liberals" who they like to "stick it to" as anyone who asks them to sober up on these two issues and love enablers like Trump who keeps pouring them guns/white supremacist shots.   

Trumps brilliance is that he completely understood these people aren't looking for anyone to improve their actual condition....they just want someone to enable them.  They are terrified to death that they are really one in the same with the lowest uneducated inner city black.  

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16 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Lulz at being dismisive of gun control as arrogance.

As pointed out, I stick up for urban issues all the time, so miss me with that shit.  

Your rural mouse was just whimsy?  Not a mockery of protecting small states through federalism?

Dismissiveness is by nature arrogance. I'm not a proponent of gun control, but I understand the impulse. As I'm against gun fetishism, though I too understand that impulse. There is a difference.

I didn't miss anything. 

I am very much a believer in federalism. It is a lot better than what Jefferson would have designed had he been left to his own devices (you know, if he wasn't in Paris at the time hobnobbing with the aristocrats while collecting as much French furniture and art as possible, all while writing glowingly about the virtues of the agrarian life). Rather, I was mocking the myth told for centuries in the U.S. that somehow rural people (we call it middle America now, I think) know best. That they are by nature more virtuous than urban people. It's all bullshit.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Let me get really PC here....

A good portion of rurals are either neo confederate bigots or have gun fetishes.   Strip all that away and they would be bigger communists than Castro with all of their ag subsidies. 

They define "liberals" who they like to "stick it to" as anyone who asks them to sober up on these two issues and love enablers like Trump who keeps pouring them guns/white supremacist shots.   

Trumps brilliance is that he completely understood these people aren't looking for anyone to improve their actual condition....they just want someone to enable them.  They are terrified to death that they are really one in the same with the lowest uneducated inner city black.  

 

With regard to guns.... What is so objectionable about gun ownership?   

I'm not really into them, but for many people, it is no different that being into owning Cars (ever hear of Cars and Coffee?)   It's more about certain people liking them as a mechanical device, and for their design, rather than some sort of militia fantasy. 

If what you are saying is true, and that many rural folks are secret communists / socialists, maybe the Democratic Party could "own" rural America in short order if they change their stance on gun ownership.   

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1 minute ago, #1Stunner said:

 

With regard to guns.... What is so objectionable about gun ownership?   

I'm not really into them, but for many people, it is no different that being into owning Cars (ever hear of Cars and Coffee?)   It's more about certain people liking them as a mechanical device, and for their design, rather than some sort of militia fantasy. 

If what you are saying is true, and that many rural folks are secret communists / socialists, maybe the Democratic Party could "own" rural America in short order if they change their stance on gun ownership.

 

 

Maybe we could offer to send them a free AR-15 instead of a $1,200 stimulus check.  That may be what we need to actually get a much needed stimulus across the finish line!

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8 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Maybe we could offer to send them a free AR-15 instead of a $1,200 stimulus check.  That may be what we need to actually get a much needed stimulus across the finish line!

You refused to answer the question.   What is so upsetting about people who want to legally own guns?

Like I said, for a large portion of this crowd, it is just a bunch of dudes who are more excited about the mechanical design and history of each gun, than they are about ever really using them in a shootout at the OK Corral.   It is very analogous to guys who want to own a classic or fancy new car---the Cars and Coffee crowd.

You have built up this huge caricature of gun nuts in your head....but I don't really see that.

So, like you said....if the rural crowd is secretly Communist / Socialist, and the only thing holding them back from aligning with the Democrats is guns, then why not change the platform on legal gun ownership and win these voters?

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You want to own a gun for home protection, sport shooting, hunting?  Doesnt affect me, go for it.

 

If you feel the need to go to Kroger and pick up a few items while packing, you have a problem.

 

9642c1b0ad346d4bfc53dd233478f919.jpg

 

My neighborhood store, BTW.  This guy is a member of Open Carry Tarrant County.  He has as much chance of needing that gun while picking up laundry detergent as I have scoring with Salma Hayek.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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12 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

You refused to answer the question.   What is so upsetting about people who want to legally own guns?

Like I said, for a large portion of this crowd, it is just a bunch of dudes who are more excited about the mechanical design and history of each gun, than they are about ever really using them in a shootout at the OK Corral.   It is very analogous to guys who want to own a classic or fancy new car---the Cars and Coffee crowd.

You have built up this huge caricature of gun nuts in your head....but I don't really see that.

So, like you said....if the rural crowd is secretly Communist / Socialist, and the only thing holding them back from aligning with the Democrats is guns, then why not change the platform on legal gun ownership and win these voters?

What exactly needs to change?  What is so objectionable?  We don't like bump stocks and AR-15s on every shoulder?  We want everyone who gets a gun to get a background check?   It is kind of like the "red scare".....Trump is always telling the rubes "they will take your GUNs.  Obama was always around every corner waiting to TAKE YOUR GUNS.  

I mean how high do the bodies need to be stacked? At least with Covid we had fewer people with bullet holes in them.  Perhaps the great compromise with covid is everyone can have guns but nobody needs to congregate anymore in areas that make them "like shooting fish in a barrell."  Maybe covid has cured mass shooting since everyone will be working online. 

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