Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

mugtang

It’s over...finally.

Recommended Posts

Figured this is where it was heading. Trump was never going to be dragged out of The White House by The Secret Service or going to start a Civil War.

 

He'll just bitch and moan til the day he dies, and hold the occasional rally to boost his ego

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

This Mother Jones guy from the top rope!

 

It's 'worst' outcomes. Also, that was a mischaracterization of the point of that radiolab show. But a dude at Mother Jones would never be unnecessarily condescending...

Anyways, most people who thought Trump wouldn't concede didnt also think there would be a civil war.  

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We got lefties posting David Frum. We got righties posting Mother Jones writers. 2020 is a helluva drug.

Meanwhile, while we celebrate the end of Trump (that’s funny!) 50 million people or so genuinely and wholeheartedly believe the election was just stolen from them. And about 50 or 60 million others believe the election was almost stolen from them. 

So, you know, maybe Trump isn’t the end of anything. He certainly wasn’t the beginning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

It's 'worst' outcomes. Also, that was a mischaracterization of the point of that radiolab show. But a dude at Mother Jones would never be unnecessarily condescending...

Anyways, most people who thought Trump wouldn't concede didnt also think there would be a civil war.  

Most people thought Trump would attempt a coup, not succeed in doing so. 

 

And let's not act like an attempt is nothing to be alarmed about, as incompetent as it may look. 

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

That said, this is a pretty good tweet thread ...

 

If only this guy had a place to write his all thoughts in one space.

Twitter threads are the digital equivalent of communicating by carrier pigeon. Had Trump been alive 500 years ago the ground would be littered with dead birds who just weren't aerodynamic enough with all that bullshit tied around their legs.

St-Javelin-Sm.jpgChase.jpg 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, youngredbullfan said:

Most people thought Trump would attempt a coup, not succeed in doing so. 

 

And let's not act like an attempt is nothing to be alarmed about, as incompetent as it may look. 

Coupes don't happen in courts.  But you know this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Coupes don't happen in courts.  But you know this.

Well, at the end of the day, no. It all comes down to who can leverage force the most effectively. But courts can be important components in their success.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, youngredbullfan said:

Well, at the end of the day, no. It all comes down to who can leverage force the most effectively. But courts can be important components in their success.

Again this seems like a point I am always harping on here but I believe it is important.  We should be able to call a bad thing a bad thing without calling it what it is not.  We are not surviving an attempted coup.  We are dealing with a president who is using his legal resources to humilate himself while simultaneously doing untold damage to the faith in the election process.  It is a bad thing.  It is NOT an attempted coupe.  

I once said (back when I drank) that Trumps legitimate presidency was victim of a soft coups attempt.  When challanged on it, I admitted the terminology was not correct.

Coups don't work through the institutions woven into how we are governed, they must by definition exist outside it through or with threat of force.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I mean, character, trade and spending... those are like 3 of the top 5 post-Raegan GOP ideals are they not? Is there anything less conservative than putting tariffs on agricultural goods and then shoveling money at the farmers who get hit by those tariffs? And I think the general economic ideology has shifted beyond trade and tariffs and into much less of a free market approach...breaking up big tech, picking winners and losers, etc... not high on the conservative list of priorities until four years ago. So I think that those examples are enough to say that what it means to be a conservative has changed.

But I also think that the bigger problem is the embrace of what I think are the worst impulses of the conservative movement. There used to be a pretty strong coalition that included both libertarian leaning GOP-ers and the social conservatives that really allowed for a kind of truce between those two wings. And that truce was basically kept up by the GOP accepting that they embraced socially conservative values like family and tradition and so on, while also defending classically liberal values like due process and free speech and equality before the law and individual autonomy and limited government and so on. But under Trump, American conservatism has largely rejected that wing of the movement and moved American conservatism closer to the blood-and-soil style of conservatism that you find in Europe. (ironically, a conservatism that is also fine with big government safety net as long as it's for us and not them) The culture wars have become the center around which the movement orbits, which isn't necessarily un-conservative, but has moved the GOP off track from where they seemed to be heading before Trump got there. A lot of that is Bannon and Miller and guys like that.  

Look man, I like Reagan a lot. But he was off the scene 32 years ago. 32 years before that we were deep in Eisenhower who only ran to oppose the Soviets. 32 years before that we’re in Coolidge territory. The only tangible experience many people have with Reagan is in the new Call of Duty where he asks you to commit war crimes to protect the American idea. And from everything I’ve heard, it’s awesome. People love fake killing commies in the name of freedom and democracy.

Yes, Trump is an absolute scumbag that makes everyone a bit dumber. I mostly gave up trying to persuade his supporters on the right long ago, because they were unpersuadable. I focused more attention on trying to bring sanity to those vehemently against Trump that no, this is not fascism or even the beginning of what fascism looks like. Didn’t matter, they’re pretty unpersuadable too. 

The breaking up of big tech and the like, I’m on your side. Section 230 is a great thing. And to get back to the Frum part of the conversation, those commentators that didn’t sell out to the Trumpists or the Resistance are the ones left standing to speak out against it with an audience that might listen. We have the right of it. But I gotta be honest, if big tech keeps egregiously putting there thumbs on the scale time and again for one side, we’re gonna lose. Most people would rather be wrong if they can win in the short term than be right and feel like suckers.

Bannon’s a crook that if the gods are good will soon be behind bars. Miller is a disgusting character whose influence is beyond pernicious. Only sycophancy has sustained him this long. But to think that the right is anything close to those 150 tiki torch wielding morons is madness. 70 million people were not ok with the bureaucracy orphaning 600 kids, but they also were not ok with a shrug of the shoulders immigration policy. Miller did a lot of harm preventing immigration reform. But you know what would have happened if Trump had won? Refugees from countries that lived under socialism that called themselves progressives would have been good, just like that. Turns out immigrants that lived under regimes enforcing that garbage aren’t keen to do so again. Now is that necessarily good policy? No. But the right is not the caricature it’s made out to be.

The opposition is always driven more by what the party in power or in recent times the President stands for, than any ideological consistency. Obama was no centrist just because he wasn’t Bernie Sanders. Trump was no fascist just because he wasn’t Mitt Romney. More of what the right will stand for is up to Biden than anyone on the right.

56 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I realize I'm coming off like this right now on this thread...

tenor.gif

Apologies.

That’s the curse and blessing of being a libertarian. You have to huff your own farts, but there’s never anyone in the room to smell them.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Look man, I like Reagan a lot. But he was off the scene 32 years ago. 32 years before that we were deep in Eisenhower who only ran to oppose the Soviets. 32 years before that we’re in Coolidge territory. The only tangible experience many people have with Reagan is in the new Call of Duty where he asks you to commit war crimes to protect the American idea. And from everything I’ve heard, it’s awesome. People love fake killing commies in the name of freedom and democracy.

I mean, I don't give two shits about Raegan. But he has been the standard for the GOP ideologically and temperamentally until 4 years ago. And as you point out, things change, so as I said, what it means to be a Republican has changed. And since the parties are now entirely ideological, that means the definition of conservative has changed.

Interestingly, Eisenhower ran against the Soviets and Kennedy won because he ran publicly to the right against Nixon re: communism, even though Nixon knew that they were planning a coup against Cuba but couldn't say anything. Not sure that's relavent, but it's interesting. 

Quote

Yes, Trump is an absolute scumbag that makes everyone a bit dumber. I mostly gave up trying to persuade his supporters on the right long ago, because they were unpersuadable. I focused more attention on trying to bring sanity to those vehemently against Trump that no, this is not fascism or even the beginning of what fascism looks like. Didn’t matter, they’re pretty unpersuadable too. 

An irony here may be that you are the one (or you stand in for the the one) that everyone else has been trying to persuade. Reasonable, smart conservatives who don't see a ton of value in Trumpism but who also don't see a ton of value in actively resisting Trump. For the most part, you guys delivered by handing the presidency to Biden but also preventing a progressive wave (at least as of now). But also pretty unpersuadable. Yet you guys are now the outliers in your own movement and thus may have to make some choices of your own about the future of your party and your movement. 

Quote

The breaking up of big tech and the like, I’m on your side. Section 230 is a great thing. And to get back to the Frum part of the conversation, those commentators that didn’t sell out to the Trumpists or the Resistance are the ones left standing to speak out against it with an audience that might listen. We have the right of it. But I gotta be honest, if big tech keeps egregiously putting there thumbs on the scale time and again for one side, we’re gonna lose. Most people would rather be wrong if they can win in the short term than be right and feel like suckers.

Sorry, but this is up there with Russian collusion. Big tech wants eyes and dollars. They're not putting thumbs on any scales beyond scales that help them make money by providing services and products that people want. If anything, their business and communication models favor right-wing flamethrowers. Putting a fact check on a Trump tweet or on a Diamond and Silk account isn't going to make the fans of Sec. 230 lose unless we continue allow jackass blowhards to use the power of the presidency (or the Senate, Ted Cruz) to take out their inferiority complexes against Jeff Bezos. Edit: and add blowhard leftists who hate free speech to that list too.

Quote

Bannon’s a crook that if the gods are good will soon be behind bars. Miller is a disgusting character whose influence is beyond pernicious. Only sycophancy has sustained him this long. But to think that the right is anything close to those 150 tiki torch wielding morons is madness. 70 million people were not ok with the bureaucracy orphaning 600 kids, but they also were not ok with a shrug of the shoulders immigration policy. Miller did a lot of harm preventing immigration reform. But you know what would have happened if Trump had won? Refugees from countries that lived under socialism that called themselves progressives would have been good, just like that. Turns out immigrants that lived under regimes enforcing that garbage aren’t keen to do so again. Now is that necessarily good policy? No. But the right is not the caricature it’s made out to be.

They were more OK with one than the other. That much is very, very clear.

Immigration reform will take political courage and legitimate wrangling and foresight and compromise. Trump's admin had none of those, and the presidency has set us back on that issue, one which I consider more and more to be a legitimate priority. Miller (and in turn, Trump) wanted to prioritize removing birthright citizenship. So, at a certain point, I don't feel I should be the one to face the burden of proof regarding the caricature. 

Quote

The opposition is always driven more by what the party in power or in recent times the President stands for, than any ideological consistency. Obama was no centrist just because he wasn’t Bernie Sanders. Trump was no fascist just because he wasn’t Mitt Romney. More of what the right will stand for is up to Biden than anyone on the right.

Obama wasn't a moderate, and Trump wasn't a fascist. I see what you did there. 

Quote

That’s the curse and blessing of being a libertarian. You have to huff your own farts, but there’s never anyone in the room to smell them.

Funny thing... when you ask Americans what they like and want from governance, they almost always favor libertarian approaches (less government intervention in their everyday lives, more freedom to pursue their own interests and happiness as they see fit). So maybe there's some strategy to the fact that both the left and the right blame us for all their problems. God forbid that people coalesce under a broadly popular approach to governance. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Bannon’s a crook that if the gods are good will soon be behind bars. Miller is a disgusting character whose influence is beyond pernicious.

Also... kudos to these statements. They seem self-evident, but we should all stop and remember them on occasion. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

An irony here may be that you are the one (or you stand in for the the one) that everyone else has been trying to persuade. Reasonable, smart conservatives who don't see a ton of value in Trumpism but who also don't see a ton of value in actively resisting Trump. For the most part, you guys delivered by handing the presidency to Biden but also preventing a progressive wave (at least as of now). But also pretty unpersuadable. Yet you guys are now the outliers in your own movement and thus may have to make some choices of your own about the future of your party and your movement. 

 

Lawlor's camp has no future in the GOP. They'll decay as the GOP comes to terms with what their voters want.

The party is marching toward extreme right-wing populism. That trend isn't stopping under a centrist president representing the norms of liberal democracy. It will embolden the populist message. As the opposition party, the GOP will naturally gravitate toward what Biden is not. Fox News is already attacking Biden's cabinet picks for supporting refugees and "globalism." In with the old, out with the new. That’s their message

Within the GOP, the median voter (stealing one of Lawlor's terms here) doesn't care about the things Lawlor does. They want economic populism mixed with a culture war. They want minimum wage hikes but also battles against masks, social media companies, and cultural liberalism

 

20201124_040649.jpg

Screenshot_20201124-040927_Firefox Beta.jpg

Screenshot_20201124-041142_Firefox Beta.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only area pre-Trump conservatism has a footing in is the suburbs. There, GOP down-ballot candidates often outrun Trump. But the rural and exurban population makes up much of the GOP base now. GOP voters will pick a conservative over a Democrat, but conservatism isn't their preferred ideology anymore. At least not the conservatism of old

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Maji said:

The only area pre-Trump conservatism has a footing in is the suburbs. There, GOP down-ballot candidates often outrun Trump. But the rural and exurban population makes up much of the GOP base now. GOP voters will pick a conservative over a Democrat, but conservatism isn't their preferred ideology anymore. At least not the conservatism of old

I honestly don't think much will change. The people in rural red counties will vote for whoever their teams and shit leader is next election. So if the GOP goes back to a more mainstream candidate like Rubio, they'll line up and vote for Rubio. Just like your team did with Biden. 

bsu_retro_bsu_logo_helmet.b_1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

He won’t even nuke Delaware to remain in power? Not my fascist dictator. This country deserves a better autocrat.

He could at least put Joe under basement arrest. For the sake of a good Authoritarian show.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...