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The GOP has lost it

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On 8/5/2022 at 12:52 AM, toonkee said:

 

 

 

Well, we're +++++ed. I've actually talked to TV news people. They're all idiots. Every one of them.

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Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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On 8/5/2022 at 8:24 AM, smltwnrckr said:

Well, we're +++++ed. I've actually talked to TV news people. They're all idiots. Every one of them.

never have hung around those types but i watched anchorman a few times...lol

 

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On 8/5/2022 at 8:48 AM, SAMO said:

never have hung around those types but i watched anchorman a few times...lol

 

It's not far off in many cases. Camera folks, on the other hand, have a more print-like ratio. About half of them are complete assholes, and the other half are definitely cool while also being complete degenerates. 

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Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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On 8/4/2022 at 8:05 PM, UNLV2001 said:

Excellent point.........Obama was a moment of history where trump isn't in the "historical" sense of the presidency..............Obama's swag was for collectible purposes & probably stored away, where trumps crap is to display as an FU to anyone not in the cult

Oh the Obama stuff was on FULL display.  T shirts everywhere you looked

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On 8/4/2022 at 3:26 PM, grandjean87 said:

Orban's recent speech is the news that ties to his CPAC appearance.  Recall, CPAC went to his place (Hungary) not that long ago.

Some gleaning (mostly) from p25-27 of The Revenge of Power (Moises Naim, 2022).  The subsection title of this content is "The Hollowness of Illiberal Democracy" which is apparently how his definition of his vision translates in English. 

Orban had an earlier stint in Hungarian politics, but in 2010 his Fidesz Party began "a comprehensive approach to stealthocracy: packing the courts, furtively purging the bureaucracy, and ending the independence of the state broadcaster". The latter is moot here, and for the first two there are practical limits here (USA).

Fidesz was able to unilaterally cut parliamentary seats dramatically and gerrymandered to hell and back.  Urban districts were set at 1.5 times the pop. of more rural ones which favor Fidesz -- resulting in more PDs favoring Orban's party.  It also shifted to a single round plurality vote from a former two-round system further tilting the scales in its electoral favor. 

The Hungarian courts were impotent to stop the electoral changes as in 2012 Fidesz instituted a mandatory retirement age 10 years younger than a prior rule.  This cleared out opposition judges.  Then they instituted a rule that senior judges now had to confirm new judge appointments entrenching their cronies.

That's enough to chew on.  I don't see any of that type of danger to our national government, but there are echoes at the state levels. 

I think Orban, who presides over a nation with a long welfare state tradition including health insurance, no2A, and legal abortions -- appeals here primarily on an emotional level of fear of the other.  I just don't see his import here because we have that w/o him.  I think he uses his U.S. appeal primarily for his own domestic power and for his ego to be seen as an important European/world leader.

 

 

I agree that our institutions would likely weather a similar attempt vis a vis Orban. Today.

However the danger I see is the brand of nationalism being promoted. The far right has fully embraced the notion that ethnicity = nationalism and this is the core message of Orban. This is how fascists gain power and genocides happen.

I don't fear that this switch could happen in my lifetime, but I fear for my kid. A younger generation getting indoctrinated in these dangerous views could mean a long term erosion of America. Especially since this generation is growing up outside the long multi-generational shadow of WWII. The Xers had grandparents that fought in that war, but the generational memory isn't there as much for younger generations. 

I know we have had nativism in the past. I think the difference now is the larger population and the proliferation of guns. Trying not to be fatalistic. 

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On 8/4/2022 at 6:43 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I was on campus and pretty involved in some downtown scenes.  Obama T's where everywhere.  Pins everywhere.  Way more than I have seen downtown or even in rural ultra MAGA towns in Idaho.

Obama was a rock star.  Way more than Trump.   

A star, maybe.  But Trump owns ol Barry O on what people will do on his behalf.  The cult of Obama was not as strong.  It is humorous to see folks act like people weren't all about Obama.  Hell, I was overseas, had literally (using this contextually accurate) no idea who he was, and my father sent a Hope post card with the blue and red profile shot.  I was like "WTF is this?"  Then he became President.  It was quick how much he exploded.

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On 8/4/2022 at 8:00 PM, UNLV2001 said:

There was a ton of Obama swag sold, but how much did Obama personally benefit is probably a pittance compared to what trump is personally making.

I'd bet with Obama most of the $$ went to the makers & those who sold it - trump seems to have opened his own retail website to hawk his named crap. Tho I do see portable trump sales operations pop up here & there in more pro-trump areas.......was down in north Phoenix area out where there's not a lot of development quite yet & someone had set up a trump flag sales operation on a vacant lot on the corner of two roads ......trump has Dinky Junior on social media hawking trump branded crap for fathers day, July 4th etc ..........I don't recall Obama or Michelle on social media hawking Obama swag or maintaining an ongoing email / website sales operation 

Obama's campaign bought the merchandise to sell to supporters mostly, with profits going towards the campaign and non profit "Organizing America".  If you used his name or image or brand to sell things privately you had to give him a cut.  Allegedly that is what Trump does as well. 

It's the same thing, guys.  Obama just did it better.  

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On 8/5/2022 at 11:01 AM, East Coast Aztec said:

A star, maybe.  But Trump owns ol Barry O on what people will do on his behalf.  The cult of Obama was not as strong.  It is humorous to see folks act like people weren't all about Obama.  Hell, I was overseas, had literally (using this contextually accurate) no idea who he was, and my father sent a Hope post card with the blue and red profile shot.  I was like "WTF is this?"  Then he became President.  It was quick how much he exploded.

Yeah, Obama did not have the "cult" thing going for him or people willing to do what Trump fans will do.

There was WAY more Obama gear in public in 08-09 than any time for Trump.

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On 8/5/2022 at 10:03 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Obama's campaign bought the merchandise to sell to supporters mostly, with profits going towards the campaign and non profit "Organizing America".  Allegedly that is what Trump does as well. 

It's the same thing, guys.  Obama just did it better.  

Define better.  Obama owned the campaign trail.  Trump trademarked MAGA early, and profits directly from it.  So the "better" part depends on what the goal is.  But make no mistake, Obama cashed in on the campaigns and presidency.  Just like they all do.

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On 8/5/2022 at 10:52 AM, SharkTanked said:

I agree that our institutions would likely weather a similar attempt vis a vis Orban. Today.

However the danger I see is the brand of nationalism being promoted. The far right has fully embraced the notion that ethnicity = nationalism and this is the core message of Orban. This is how fascists gain power and genocides happen.

I don't fear that this switch could happen in my lifetime, but I fear for my kid. A younger generation getting indoctrinated in these dangerous views could mean a long term erosion of America. Especially since this generation is growing up outside the long multi-generational shadow of WWII. The Xers had grandparents that fought in that war, but the generational memory isn't there as much for younger generations. 

I know we have had nativism in the past. I think the difference now is the larger population and the proliferation of guns. Trying not to be fatalistic. 

There is an undercurrent within the young.  I think it is overwhelmed by the support for gay rights, diversity, and immigrants from their age peers.

But, fear of the hypothetical can be powerful.  We are such a large country and immigration rarely causes real, widespread problems.   Hungary is a small population country in demographic decline with out-migration.  I get why Orban’s brand sells there.  

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On 8/5/2022 at 11:10 AM, East Coast Aztec said:

Define better.  Obama owned the campaign trail.  Trump trademarked MAGA early, and profits directly from it.  So the "better" part depends on what the goal is.  But make no mistake, Obama cashed in on the campaigns and presidency.  Just like they all do.

If you bought a piece of Obama merch from the campaign, the profits went to "him" same as Trump.  And Obama sold way more, to way more people.

On profiting?  The Obamas are a nearly billion dollar brand, while Trump lost 700M in net worth while president.  Safe to say Barry profited WAAAAAY more lol.  (Because Trump is toxic)

https://www.sacculturalhub.com/entertainment/articles/the-obamas-are-becoming-a-billion-dollar-brand/

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On 8/5/2022 at 10:17 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

If you bought a piece of Obama merch from the campaign, the profits went to "him" same as Trump.  And Obama sold way more, to way more people.

On profiting?  The Obamas are a nearly billion dollar brand, while Trump lost 700M in net worth while president.  Safe to say Barry profited WAAAAAY more lol.  (Because Trump is toxic)

https://www.sacculturalhub.com/entertainment/articles/the-obamas-are-becoming-a-billion-dollar-brand/

His net worth is much less.  And to insinuate that Trump lost money is nothing more than shuffling signatures on the brand.  Not to mention the family wealth exploded, and the embedded connections set his name in stone for generations.  He went from a joke to his family name being up there with the names just under the true old money ones.  Hell the taxpayers have, or will in the end, soak up much of that so-called 700M loss just with the costs for travel and security.  His bills for travel to Mar-a-Lago alone beat Obama's net worth.  You can note Obama's zero to wealthy without acting like Trump lost anything from his Presidency, especially when logic can smell that that claim misses on a lot of factors.

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On 8/5/2022 at 11:32 AM, East Coast Aztec said:

His net worth is much less.  And to insinuate that Trump lost money is nothing more than shuffling signatures on the brand.  Not to mention the family wealth exploded, and the embedded connections set his name in stone for generations.  He went from a joke to his family name being up there with the names just under the true old money ones.  Hell the taxpayers have, or will in the end, soak up much of that so-called 700M loss just with the costs for travel and security.  His bills for travel to Mar-a-Lago alone beat Obama's net worth.  You can note Obama's zero to wealthy without acting like Trump lost anything from his Presidency, especially when logic can smell that that claim misses on a lot of factors.

BBC says he lost 1/3rd of his net worth while president at 1.1 billion in losses.

It's just the truth.  I guess it was not "because" he was president so much as because his properties declined in value, and his properties make up most of his wealth.  

I'm sure Trump will make up much of his lost wealth with various media deals and what not.  His kids certainly profited. 

But, back to the point.  Obama was >Trump at selling merchandise and profiting from merchandise.  Not that close either.  

The worst part about me buying an Obama T shirt was the weekly email asking me for money.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56438914

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On 8/5/2022 at 10:41 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

BBC says he lost 1/3rd of his net worth while president at 1.1 billion in losses.

It's just the truth.  I guess it was not "because" he was president so much as because his properties declined in value, and his properties make up most of his wealth.  

I'm sure Trump will make up much of his lost wealth with various media deals and what not.  His kids certainly profited. 

But, back to the point.  Obama was >Trump at selling merchandise and profiting from merchandise.  Not that close either.  

The worst part about me buying an Obama T shirt was the weekly email asking me for money.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56438914

It's always strange for people to quantify his net worth, since A) it is largely investment properties, and B ) he has not made his actual financials known and they are too diversified to calculate.  It's guess work.   But there is no argument to say that the contacts that he has made, and the strength of his empires tentacles, increased much more than any ding his companies took because of his time in office.  It's just not grounded in reality, so I typically eyeroll when folks talk about what he lost, or that he never took a salary.

 

But yes, Barry O made out like a bandit, especially in proportion to where he started to where he is now.  Slick talking law degree types can be just as efficient as a salesman in fleecing money from folks.  Dude went from Chicago to Georgetown.  I think maybe I am doing it wrong.

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The Obamas are strait hustlers baby!  Barrack is on pace to become the first ever billionaire former president (if you don't count Trump)  https://www.hot97.com/hot-news/barack-obama-will-reportedly-be-the-1st-billionaire-former-president

For the low low price of $35 you can buy Michelle's, super ugly candle!

image.png

 

Although my favorite is Obama approved T

image.jpeg
 

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On 8/5/2022 at 12:15 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

It's always strange for people to quantify his net worth, since A) it is largely investment properties, and B ) he has not made his actual financials known and they are too diversified to calculate.  It's guess work.   But there is no argument to say that the contacts that he has made, and the strength of his empires tentacles, increased much more than any ding his companies took because of his time in office.  It's just not grounded in reality, so I typically eyeroll when folks talk about what he lost, or that he never took a salary.

 

But yes, Barry O made out like a bandit, especially in proportion to where he started to where he is now.  Slick talking law degree types can be just as efficient as a salesman in fleecing money from folks.  Dude went from Chicago to Georgetown.  I think maybe I am doing it wrong.

 

I don't hold it against the Obama's.  That's what we as a society have decided they are worth.  They will eventually be billionaires per projections.  Good for them.  Strait hustlers.  

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