halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 A two trillion dollar energy plan with 0 investment in nuclear is far left radical science denying load of doodoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Akkula said: A quick google search tells me that AOC is open to Nuclear as part of the green new deal. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/amp26255413/green-new-deal-nuclear-power/&ved=2ahUKEwjxm72f7LTtAhXLi54KHXPrAQIQxbwDMAB6BAgDEAU&usg=AOvVaw0G7KvP6eFaYusibzJhRbzi&cf=1 Radicals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: Storage requires the mining REM. Small salt reactors the size of cars can power city blocks. And yes, nuclear power is the Libertarian parties official stance on reducing climate change, just through the private sector. I don't know much about the storage technology, I just know that individual storage is the best way to an energy policy built around individuals: I generate my own energy and use it as I see fit. I am not saying that's a good policy... just that it is the most libertarian policy. And like I said, if the Libertarian party has embraced nuclear, but through the private sector, then they are being dumb. Again, this is my understanding, but successful nuclear generation at least at this point requires capital and organizational heft that only comes from the state or from state-sponsored (and largely state-funded) monopolies. A typical private sector approach doesn't work because of the overwhelming, long-term costs up front. And while Nuclear is actually safe compared to coal, it still requires intense regulation to prevent the kinds of disasters we know can come of it. We can only do private sector space launches right now because of like 50 years of government funded space exploration (which was largely accepted and advanced due to the cold war). And you saw it with hydroelectricity in California 100 years ago, where a ton of small-time hydroelectric operations were established and then failed before the system stabilized financially under big-time corporate consolidation, state-approved monopolies and public power policies. The most successful progress in nuclear energy in the US has been for military use. State funded, at a significant cost, with no need for short-term profit. Nuclear is probably the answer. But by accepting that, we must accept that laissez faire libertarianism has its shortcomings just like socialism, corporatism, progressivism and social conservatism do. 2 Quote Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkula Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/amp26255413/green-new-deal-nuclear-power/&ved=2ahUKEwjxm72f7LTtAhXLi54KHXPrAQIQxbwDMAB6BAgDEAU&usg=AOvVaw0G7KvP6eFaYusibzJhRbzi&cf=1 Radicals. Ocasio-Cortez: Green New Deal ‘Leaves the Door Open’ on Nuclear https://morningconsult.com/2019/05/06/ocasio-cortez-green-new-deal-leaves-door-open-nuclear/ This is a good reminder that we may want to disparage people on their actual policies instead of a demagogue caricature of what their policies are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Just now, smltwnrckr said: I don't know much about the storage technology, I just know that individual storage is the best way to an energy policy built around individuals: I generate my own energy and use it as I see fit. I am not saying that's a good policy... just that it is the most libertarian policy. And like I said, if the Libertarian party has embraced nuclear, but through the private sector, then they are being dumb. Again, this is my understanding, but successful nuclear generation at least at this point requires capital and organizational heft that only comes from the state or from state-sponsored (and largely state-funded) monopolies. A typical private sector approach doesn't work because of the overwhelming, long-term costs up front. And while Nuclear is actually safe compared to coal, it still requires intense regulation to prevent the kinds of disasters we know can come of it. We can only do private sector space launches right now because of like 50 years of government funded space exploration (which was largely accepted and advanced due to the cold war). And you saw it with hydroelectricity in California 100 years ago, where a ton of small-time hydroelectric operations were established and then failed before the system stabilized financially under big-time corporate consolidation, state-approved monopolies and public power policies. The most successful progress in nuclear energy in the US has been for military use. State funded, at a significant cost, with no need for short-term profit. Nuclear is probably the answer. But by accepting that, we must accept that laissez faire libertarianism has its shortcomings just like socialism, corporatism and social conservatism do. You are right. Right now Nuclear requires great investment. The LP has it wrong. But it makes my running joke less funy to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Just now, Akkula said: Ocasio-Cortez: Green New Deal ‘Leaves the Door Open’ on Nuclear https://morningconsult.com/2019/05/06/ocasio-cortez-green-new-deal-leaves-door-open-nuclear/ This is a good reminder that we may want to disparage people on their actual policies instead of a demagogue caricature of what their policies are. Leaves the door open while only planing investment in renewables. And shutting down current plants. Sorry, not planning investment in nuclear as part of the solution to the climate crises while wanting to spend trillions on sources that simply cant power a grid is an anti science position. Wanting to shut down plants with no plan to replace hardly helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said: I don't know much about the storage technology, I just know that individual storage is the best way to an energy policy built around individuals: I generate my own energy and use it as I see fit. I am not saying that's a good policy... just that it is the most libertarian policy. And like I said, if the Libertarian party has embraced nuclear, but through the private sector, then they are being dumb. Again, this is my understanding, but successful nuclear generation at least at this point requires capital and organizational heft that only comes from the state or from state-sponsored (and largely state-funded) monopolies. A typical private sector approach doesn't work because of the overwhelming, long-term costs up front. And while Nuclear is actually safe compared to coal, it still requires intense regulation to prevent the kinds of disasters we know can come of it. We can only do private sector space launches right now because of like 50 years of government funded space exploration (which was largely accepted and advanced due to the cold war). And you saw it with hydroelectricity in California 100 years ago, where a ton of small-time hydroelectric operations were established and then failed before the system stabilized financially under big-time corporate consolidation, state-approved monopolies and public power policies. The most successful progress in nuclear energy in the US has been for military use. State funded, at a significant cost, with no need for short-term profit. Nuclear is probably the answer. But by accepting that, we must accept that laissez faire libertarianism has its shortcomings just like socialism, corporatism and social conservatism do. Also, you should look into storage. It is a really hard nut to crack. We are a long way away from doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: You are right. Right now Nuclear requires great investment. The LP has it wrong. But it makes my running joke less funy to me. Call me Buzz Killington, and carry on. Quote Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said: Also, you should look into storage. It is a really hard nut to crack. We are a long way away from doing so. I will. I assume it's a tough one, considering it's such an obvious answer and we are a ways off. But I really don't know, like, anything about how storage works even for my phone. Quote Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said: I will. I assume it's a tough one, considering it's such an obvious answer and we are a ways off. But I really don't know, like, anything about how storage works even for my phone. My computer is in the shop and with the cost to fix it I am just going to buy a new one I think, so have been posting on my phone which makes it hard to type my usual detailed responses. I went in depth on the storahe proplem with Orange and will see if I can find it. It comes down to physics. Electricity is really hard to store. Science simply has no way to tackle the problem right now. Stored energy in batteries is countable in minutes, not days. Good read here. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markpmills/2015/08/07/the-clean-power-plan-will-collide-with-the-incredibly-weird-physics-of-the-electric-grid/2/#2c61d4f59c8d 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/politics/trump-nominee-pentagon-martial-law/index.html President Donald Trump's nominee to become a senior Pentagon official spread debunked conspiracies on Twitter that called Trump's election loss to Joe Biden a "coup" attempt and shared tweets that suggest Trump should declare martial law. Scott O'Grady, a former fighter pilot and Trump loyalist, repeatedly retweeted tweets that falsely stated Trump won the election in "landslide fashion" and that millions of votes were stolen from the President. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Convert Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 57 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said: Everything I read suggests that major embrace of Nuclear will require increased government involvement in production of energy. So the libertarians should be ambivalent about Nuclear as the answer to climate change, and a lot of them are. I agree that we should embrace Nuclear. But that also will mean a less libertarian energy policy. It’s pretty amazing that a safe nuclear reactor in an aircraft carrier or submarine will run for 20 to 25 years before it needs re-fueling. That’s just so amazing. A sub makes its own pure water and oxygen for the crew indefinitely, so all they need is food. Surface the thing and go fishing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
818SUDSFan Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 On 12/3/2020 at 12:09 AM, Maji said: Ignoring or denying climate change is a rejection of evidence-based policy. Likewise, a climate plan insisting on only using renewable energy is as well. Only people who either think FoxNews is too far left or who are total ignoranuses still deny the existence of climate change and still think human actions are irrelevant to it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrofade Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Just now, 818SUDSFan said: Only people who either think FoxNews is too far left or who are total ignoranuses still deny the existence of climate change and still think human actions are irrelevant to it. So.... the Trumpist contingent around here. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
818SUDSFan Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, retrofade said: So.... the Trumpist contingent around here. Speaking of whom, there is an excellent op-ed in today's L.A. Times about Mr. Grumpy. I've been concerned about the orange turd running for president again in four years. However, the gist of the op-ed is that Trump is nothing if not an attention hog and if he can figure out a way to get enough of it going forward, he won't be very motivated to run again. Combine that with his ongoing legal problems and the backlash he could face when so many people who donated money to fund his batshit crazy election-fixing lawsuits find out their money actually went to paying off his loser campaign and I'm now very skeptical that he will run again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, retrofade said: So.... the Trumpist contingent around here. Problem is the Carbon and cow farts get stuck beneath the dome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrofade Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: Problem is the Carbon and cow farts get stuck beneath the dome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Also thank you @RSF @smltwnrckr and@Akkula for being good sports in humoring me on NUCLEAR NOW! tirade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSF Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: Also thank you @RSF @smltwnrckr and@Akkula for being good sports in humoring me on NUCLEAR NOW! tirade. Given recent events, I've become more cognizant of people's mental issues.... 1 Quote In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: Also thank you @RSF @smltwnrckr and@Akkula for being good sports in humoring me on NUCLEAR NOW! tirade. Quote Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...