Bob Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 What is controversial, or revolutionary about DeChambeau? Is he the one that plays painfully slow? I read an article and they never really explained why he is controversial. They called him a mad scientist Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sjsbuff Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 He's built himself up such that his distance is beyond belief. His 325+ yard driving average (often hitting over 350) renders the rough at a hallowed U.S. Open venue like Winged Foot less consequential. Much so. Hitting it out of the rough from 130 yards compared to 200 yards is like night and day. Seriously. When he's hitting wedge from the rough and 50%-75% of the field is struggling to hit a 4, 5 or 6 iron instead, well, his advantage increases astronomically. He can control the ball far better with the shorter iron - both in terms of direction and distance. Especially in accessing slick U.S. Open greens. IMO, he should NOT be denigrated for having bulked up and reaped the results of same. He's a VERY good putter, so, in terms of wins, all that distance would be meaningless if he was just an average putter (although he'd still bank a lot of dough). The fact that he has a solid short game and can putt makes his distance a LETHAL combination. I can see in a full PGA Tour year (and with no injury) him winning 5+ times. That remains to be seen, but that would be an indication of a potentially "great" golfer (not a term I readily throw around). As for him being a "mad scientist," he's very analytical in his approach. He hasn't taken on the added weight lightly and and is meticulous in his approach to the game (details). Works harder than anyone else (from what I hear). I'm not saying he's the next Tiger Woods (far from it), but at this point he's at least taking a "heavyweight" swing at breaking the (PGA Tour Pro) model. Early returns are that it's working... 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renoskier Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Bob said: What is controversial, or revolutionary about DeChambeau? Is he the one that plays painfully slow? I read an article and they never really explained why he is controversial. They called him a mad scientist His pace of play is what got players and spectators upset. And IMO, that criticism was well deserved. I don't know if he's picked up the pace but no one seems to be mentioning it, everyone is just talking about the new physique and the monster drives. The "bomb and gouge" isn't really a new idea but no one has ever succeeded with that approach at the US Open where the rough is very punitive. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sjsbuff Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, renoskier said: His pace of play is what got players and spectators upset. And IMO, that criticism was well deserved. I don't know if he's picked up the pace but no one seems to be mentioning it, everyone is just talking about the new physique and the monster drives. The "bomb and gouge" isn't really a new idea but no one has ever succeeded with that approach at the US Open where the rough is very punitive. Yeah, John Daly could've been that guy in the 1990's, but he couldn't stay off of the bottle long enough to (fully) capitalize on his talent (and the then prodigious distance). As to BD, if his slow play results in penalties, then so be it. If the rules regularly penalize him, he will either adapt or (continually) get burned. There are players with far less talent than him that have been accused of slow play over the years (but not the subject of PGA Tour rules enforcement), so at this juncture I'm inclined to give a quality player like BD a bit of the benefit of the doubt (but only within reason)... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
edluvar Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Great player who treats rules officials and spectators poorly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renoskier Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, sjsbuff said: Yeah, John Daly could've been that guy in the 1990's, but he couldn't stay off of the bottle long enough to (fully) capitalize on his talent (and the then prodigious distance). As to BD, if his slow play results in penalties, then so be it. If the rules regularly penalize him, he will either adapt or (continually) get burned. There are players with far less talent than him that have been accused of slow play over the years (but not the subject of PGA Tour rules enforcement), so at this juncture I'm inclined to give a quality player like BD a bit of the benefit of the doubt (but only within reason)... John Daly was the first that I can think of but there have been a lot since then. Regarding the slow play, I think there's a few guys out there who are routinely put on the clock but yes, you're going to hear more about it when those guys are near the top of the leaderboard. With BD, I think some of the players felt there was some gamesmanship going on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thelawlorfaithful Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, edluvar said: Great player who treats rules officials and spectators poorly. Is he a Patrick Reed level jerk? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toonkee Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, sjsbuff said: He's built himself up such that his distance is beyond belief. His 325+ yard driving average (often hitting over 350) renders the rough at a hallowed U.S. Open venue like Winged Foot less consequential. Much so. Hitting it out of the rough from 130 yards compared to 200 yards is like night and day. Seriously. When he's hitting wedge from the rough and 50%-75% of the field is struggling to hit a 4, 5 or 6 iron instead, well, his advantage increases astronomically. He can control the ball far better with the shorter iron - both in terms of direction and distance. Especially in accessing slick U.S. Open greens. IMO, he should NOT be denigrated for having bulked up and reaped the results of same. He's a VERY good putter, so, in terms of wins, all that distance would be meaningless if he was just an average putter (although he'd still bank a lot of dough). The fact that he has a solid short game and can putt makes his distance a LETHAL combination. I can see in a full PGA Tour year (and with no injury) him winning 5+ times. That remains to be seen, but that would be an indication of a potentially "great" golfer (not a term I readily throw around). As for him being a "mad scientist," he's very analytical in his approach. He hasn't taken on the added weight lightly and and is meticulous in his approach to the game (details). Works harder than anyone else (from what I hear). I'm not saying he's the next Tiger Woods (far from it), but at this point he's at least taking a "heavyweight" swing at breaking the (PGA Tour Pro) model. Early returns are that it's working... With regards to your bold statement, golf will always be a game of precision. Driving it long will make being precise easier, however Bryson, and all champions on tour, win because they made putts and if Bryson loses a little touch, he won't win like this. The media and golf fans right now are infatuated with his bulking up, however he wasn't even the longest guy in his pairing today. Lots of these dudes rip it like him but they don't get the hype for some reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toonkee Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 34 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said: Is he a Patrick Reed level jerk? Nah. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renoskier Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 59 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said: Is he a Patrick Reed level jerk? No. Reed has been accused of cheating, that's a whole nother stratosphere. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sjsbuff Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 38 minutes ago, toonkee said: With regards to your bold statement, golf will always be a game of precision. Driving it long will make being precise easier, however Bryson, and all champions on tour, win because they made putts and if Bryson loses a little touch, he won't win like this. The media and golf fans right now are infatuated with his bulking up, however he wasn't even the longest guy in his pairing today. Lots of these dudes rip it like him but they don't get the hype for some reason. What bold statement are you referring to? I was making some general observations/opinions, nothing more. Of the long guys off the tee, BD, DJ and Rahm are the most dangerous right now. And McIlroy, but he needs to get the rest of his sh!t (game) together (IMO, he should win a LOT more than he does). Wolff could yet be in that group, too, but he's only 21, so is probably a bit premature for him to be put higher on the "expectations" pedestal, I think. Certainly a good amateur record for him is starting to translate to the pros. Rahm can be a real head case at times and for some inexplicable reason DJ can't finish majors (it's sort of like Greg Norman, but without all the excruciating drama in his losses). I don't know about BD's supposed gamesmanship, but all I know is he just kicked Winged Foot's ass all over the place - and in missing fairways right and left (literally) while doing so. Same for Wolff (mostly). In fact, MW's hitting only 2 fairways and shooting 65 on Saturday may have been one of the greatest "recovery" rounds golf has ever seen. Still, he couldn't finish the deal. But BD did, so to the victor goes the spoils (including all the extra attention)... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sjsbuff Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, renoskier said: No. Reed has been accused of cheating, that's a whole nother stratosphere. I look at Reed sort of like Tucker Carlson. I'm probably the least violent person anyone here will ever meet, but I still want to plant a nice fist in his smug face... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NVGiant Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, edluvar said: Great player who treats rules officials and spectators poorly. He’s a turd. But his play was really impressive. Winged Foot is a beast and he manhandled it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NVGiant Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 32 minutes ago, renoskier said: No. Reed has been accused of cheating, that's a whole nother stratosphere. His own family thinks he’s a shit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fowl Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Cameron Champ hits it as far as BD and was no where to be seen on the last day. Bryson has a complete package and has busted his butt to get there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toonkee Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 58 minutes ago, sjsbuff said: What bold statement are you referring to? I was making some general observations/opinions, nothing more. Of the long guys off the tee, BD, DJ and Rahm are the most dangerous right now. And McIlroy, but he needs to get the rest of his sh!t (game) together (IMO, he should win a LOT more than he does). Wolff could yet be in that group, too, but he's only 21, so is probably a bit premature for him to be put higher on the "expectations" pedestal, I think. Certainly a good amateur record for him is starting to translate to the pros. Rahm can be a real head case at times and for some inexplicable reason DJ can't finish majors (it's sort of like Greg Norman, but without all the excruciating drama in his losses). I don't know about BD's supposed gamesmanship, but all I know is he just kicked Winged Foot's ass all over the place - and in missing fairways right and left (literally) while doing so. Same for Wolff (mostly). In fact, MW's hitting only 2 fairways and shooting 65 on Saturday may have been one of the greatest "recovery" rounds golf has ever seen. Still, he couldn't finish the deal. But BD did, so to the victor goes the spoils (including all the extra attention)... The one I put in bold in my reply, that bryson has a great short game and is a great putter. That is much more relevant to his success than his length and the stats back that up. Remember, Tiger drove like shit and was crazy long in his hayday and still won everything. Phil is a shitty driver too and really quite long himself. He won multiple majors and a crap ton of tour events but he and tiger were two great competitors with amazing short games. And I meant how he gets all the attention for being long, but lots of guys hit it as far. It's been that way since he bulked up. But he's a unique guy with a fresh approach to things and there only so much to talk about, so I get why they media does it. I just think his approach gets too much credit for being some secret key to the future. Dude is just good at golf the same way all great tournament players are and he'll play well some weeks and not so well on other weeks. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
soupslam1 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 BD can lose it as fast as he improved. Look at Jordan Spieth these days. Golf is a really weird sport and is very difficult to play consistently great. It looks like Injuries and age have finally caught up to Tiger Woods. He’s also lost his legendary mental toughness. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 7 hours ago, soupslam1 said: BD can lose it as fast as he improved. Look at Jordan Spieth these days. Golf is a really weird sport and is very difficult to play consistently great. It looks like Injuries and age have finally caught up to Tiger Woods. He’s also lost his legendary mental toughness. Yeah, whatever happened to spieth? He was supposed to be the next great thing 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renoskier Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 10 hours ago, NVGiant said: His own family thinks he’s a shit Hey, leave Trump and his family for the non-sports board Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thelawlorfaithful Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 14 hours ago, renoskier said: No. Reed has been accused of cheating, that's a whole nother stratosphere. I wanna hear about the cheating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
