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halfmanhalfbronco

Criticism of Netflix "Cuties" is now right wing, QANON, racist, sexist BS?

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5 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I'm all for what?

I laid out in the OP the left needs to be careful about allowing the right to be painted as the anti child porn party.

Your defense is well noted.

All for the polarization. ... and defend what? Are you suggesting that I’m defending kiddie porn? If so, I think we’re done here.

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1 hour ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Seems like a topic worthy of it's own thread.  

I was simply giving my best guess as to the "why" in your question.  I don't think a show like Toddlers in Tiaras would fly in 2020 if it tried to launch.  

I think this is the perfect thread for it. People are using selective outrage, fueled by unassailable concern for "the children," to try and use the power of the state to censor stuff. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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3 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

All for the polarization. ... and defend what? Are you suggesting that I’m defending kiddie porn? If so, I think we’re done here.

No, it was great when everybody was on the same page that this movie was gross.

You don't think Cuties is child porn, so no I am not saying you are defending child porn.  You think Cuties may or may not hit a mark.  I think no mark justifies what is in the documentary.  

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4 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I think this is the perfect thread for it. People are using selective outrage, fueled by unassailable concern for "the children," to try and use the power of the state to censor stuff. 

I think the market can punish Netflix if it decides to.  I have a feeling most outraged, including myself, will not cancel their Netflix subscriptions because of it.  I do not think the State can or should be involved.  I think public outrage is justified.  

 

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The movie is not a documentary. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I think the market can punish Netflix if it decides to.  I have a feeling most outraged, including myself, will not cancel their Netflix subscriptions because of it.  I do not think the State can or should be involved.  I think public outrage is justified.  

 

You seem to be patting Ted Cruz on the back for trying to get the state involved.

And you seem to be suggesting that no matter the intent of the filmmaker, your interpretation of the film's intent is the thing that matters. I have a feeling in other contexts you would find this argument to be a problem. But I will admit, I am making an assumption there. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

You seem to be patting Ted Cruz on the back for trying to get the state involved.

And you seem to be suggesting that no matter the intent of the filmmaker, your interpretation of the film's intent is the thing that matters. I have a feeling in other contexts you would find this argument to be a problem. But I will admit, I am making an assumption there. 

I think Ted Cruz was politically savvy.  No, the state should not be involved.  

Yes, I do not care about the intent.  Something about paving a road with good intentions.  The content makes it mute.

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51 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

No, I need to shame people like you who will rally to Cuties because Ted Cruz said a thing.

Wow you really suck at reading comprehension today. Because that is literally the opposite of what I've said or done.

Run out of water while in the backcountry or something? 

St-Javelin-Sm.jpgChase.jpg 

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13 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

No, it was great when everybody was on the same page that this movie was gross.

You don't think Cuties is child porn, so no I am not saying you are defending child porn.  You think Cuties may or may not hit a mark.  I think no mark justifies what is in the documentary.  

I don’t know what Cuties is because I’ve never seen it. I have no opinion of it other than I don’t think I want to see it. But I’m just not going to take the word of Ted Cruz or somebody who hasn’t seen it.

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3 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I think Ted Cruz was politically savvy.  No, the state should not be involved.  

Yes, I do not care about the intent.  Something about paving a road with good intentions.  The content makes it mute.

That's the exact argument people use when talking about racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. Whether you intend something or not, if the person experiences it as bigoted, your intentions don't matter.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Just now, smltwnrckr said:

That's the exact argument people use when talking about racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. Whether you intend something or not, if the person experiences it as bigoted, your intentions don't matter.

Also, it's worth noting... if the right didn't get all up in a frenzy about this, the overriding critique of this movie would probably have been it gave a Xenophobic depiction of African immigrants in France.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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And if the characters were boys, no one would care. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Just now, smltwnrckr said:

That's the exact argument people use when talking about racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. Whether you intend something or not, if the person experiences it as bigoted, your intentions don't matter.

Well, I think if you say the N word, your intent does not matter.  When you expose the breast of an 11 year old in a movie, and have close up shots of the crotches, butts and breasts of preteens, your intent does not matter.

 

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7 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

I don’t know what Cuties is because I’ve never seen it. I have no opinion of it other than I don’t think I want to see it. But I’m just not going to take the word of Ted Cruz or somebody who hasn’t seen it.

Fair.  I think we can leave it at this.  No hard feelings, I hope.

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17 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Well, I think if you say the N word, your intent does not matter.  When you expose the breast of an 11 year old in a movie, and have close up shots of the crotches, butts and breasts of preteens, your intent does not matter.

 

There are plenty of contexts in which saying the N word doesn't make you racist. One of those contexts is if you say the word in a movie critical of racism while you are playing the part of a racist. 

The fact of the matter is that you are deciding that a movie you haven't seen promotes the sexualization of children, while the person who made the movie explicitly says that her goal with the movie is to critique the sexualization of children. I believe you that you don't want the government to censor said movie, though you seem to be apologizing for those calling for censorship by saying the movie is child pornography and saying that powerful people who are trying to censor the movie are actually being politically savvy and not authoritarian nannies who are consciously fighting culture wars to increase their power. 

You have every right to think that depicting something in a movie as part of a critique of that thing actually promotes the thing it's trying to critique. People say that about gun violence in movies all the time - that it promotes gun violence even though the filmmaker means the movie as a critique of gun violence. It's a real debate that has gone on as long as art has existed. But it is worth noting that those arguments are largely (though not exclusively) made by people who want to censor cultural production. And making the argument without experiencing the cultural production undermines the argument because the people who mkae that argument are almost exclusively the censors. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Just now, thelawlorfaithful said:

6 pages arguing about a gross piece of art that utterly fails at what it’s creator intended. You guys doing ok? 

I'm arguing about censorship and moral panic. I can argue about that forever, from Stravinsky to Mapplethorpe to South Park to Slayer to Cuties. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

There are plenty of contexts in which saying the N word doesn't make you racist. One of those contexts is if you say the word in a movie while you are playing the part of a racist. 

The fact of the matter is that you are deciding that a movie you haven't seen promotes the sexualization of children, while the person who made the movie explicitly says that her goal with the movie is to critique the sexualization of children. I believe you that you don't want the government to censor said movie, though you seem to be apologizing for those calling for censorship by saying the movie is child pornography and saying that powerful people who are trying to censor the movie are actually being politically savvy and not authoritarian nannies who are consciously fighting culture wars to increase their power. 

You have every right to think that depicting something in a movie as part of a critique of that thing actually promotes the thing it's trying to critique. People say that about gun violence in movies all the time - that it promotes gun violence even though the filmmaker means the movie as a critique of gun violence. It's a real debate that has gone on as long as art has existed. But it is worth noting that those arguments are largely (though not exclusively) made by people who want to censor cultural production. And making the argument without experiencing the cultural production undermines the argument because those people are almost exclusively by the censorious. 

Being politically savvy is not mutually exclusive with being an Authoritarian nanny.  I believe Cruz is both.

I have no idea if Cuties will inadvertently promote sexual exploitation of minors.  That is not my argument.  My argument is that it IS sexual exploitation of minors.  That it IS inappropriate and gross content.  That child actors were sexualized.  That a breast of an 11 year old was exposed.  That there were close up crotch shots, close up shots of breasts and buttocks of pre teens.  Of kids touching themselves in in a sexual context.  I do not have to watch it to know this occurred.  Those who have watched it confirm it.

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