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UNLV2001

NBA teams protest

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2 minutes ago, thedude15 said:

One thing I  don't get. What benefit does the NBA actually get if they cancel the playoffs. I mean they will get some goodwill from some fans. But that would be offset by the bad will they get by other fans, the lost money of the players, the lost money of the owners, the lost income of other staff, the precedent that is set (ie the next time something occurs on a social level people will expect the NBA to cancel games/seasons). 

I doubt the President or the government is going to implement a law because the NBA doesn't play. The NBA can already donate to causes they see fit, advocate, and change internally to make their own bubble more just (and set an example for other companies). 

Honestly they would survive this year if they cancel the playoffs BUT if they keep doing this another basketball league will form that just focuses on actual basketball (ie the reason they make billions of dollars, and players are idolized) and put the NBA out of business. 

The NBA doesn’t want to cancel the season. But the players have agency, and if they don’t want to play, what can the league do? 

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49 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Unfortunately the answer is yes. It’s probably the least racist environment I’ve ever been in primarily because you have to heavily rely on each other. 

True.   Assuming of course the other side isn’t racially defined like say the Japanese.   

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32 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Ok. So.... why do you disagree that police should follow military rules of engagement, exactly?  

It’s not a war zone.  It’s reasonable to have appropriate rules in the situation a persons back is turned towards you and they are moving away.   With body cameras those facts become clearer.   

Im not saying it should always be forbidden btw.  But we need to have a clear debate and unambiguous rules of engagement.   

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41 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Ok. So.... why do you disagree that police should follow military rules of engagement, exactly?  

Like the police, military rules of engagement aren’t followed all the time. It’s also a much different environment particularly in a war zone. Although there are some similarities, you can’t equate the two.

Part of the problem with the police may be that a lot are ex military and think they can operate the same. The military is definitely us versus them and that mentality is detrimental for the police force. 

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29 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

The NBA doesn’t want to cancel the season. But the players have agency, and if they don’t want to play, what can the league do? 

Go bankrupt and a different league will form with players that want to play basketball... Like I said the NBA can survive a year of this but if it becomes a pattern a different league will be created. Even if that league has vastly less talent if they actually focus on basketball it will have a following. Last I checked college sports have significantly less talent the the pros but they have a massive following.  

This is not to say that players/NBA is right or wrong to potentially cancel a season. I mean true change typically takes true sacrifice. It is just pointing out the obvious repercussions of that potential action.   

edit- and on a more literal level the NBA could fire the players that don't want to play. Pretty sure refusing to play would be a breach of contract. I mean if I refuse to go to work I would be fired. Now granted PR wise the NBA would never do that BUT there is a lot they can do. 

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11 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Like the police, military rules of engagement aren’t followed all the time. It’s also a much different environment particularly in a war zone. Although there are some similarities, you can’t equate the two.

Part of the problem with the police may be that a lot are ex military and think they can operate the same. The military is definitely us versus them and that mentality is detrimental for the police force. 

So why have laws because people can break them? That’s your argument? Seriously? 

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2 minutes ago, thedude15 said:

Go bankrupt and a different league will form with players that want to play basketball... Like I said the NBA can survive a year of this but if it becomes a pattern a different league will be created. Even if that league has vastly less talent if they actually focus on basketball it will have a following. Last I checked college sports have significantly less talent the the pros but they have a massive following.  

This is not to say that players/NBA is right or wrong to potentially cancel a season. I mean true change typically takes true sacrifice. It is just pointing out the obvious repercussions of that potential action.   

The NBA isn’t going anywhere. And this hypothetical new league would have the exact same demographics as the NBA, so eventually the same dynamics would arise.

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15 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

It’s not a war zone.  It’s reasonable to have appropriate rules in the situation a persons back is turned towards you and they are moving away.   With body cameras those facts become clearer.   

Im not saying it should always be forbidden btw.  But we need to have a clear debate and unambiguous rules of engagement.   

Exactly, it’s not a war zone. 

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21 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

So why have laws because people can break them? That’s your argument? Seriously? 

No, Im not making an argument, I’m just saying it happens in both the police and military. How you deal with it and prevent it is a whole different subject. IMO it’s easier to deal with for a police force. 

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6 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

The NBA isn’t going anywhere. And this hypothetical new league would have the exact same demographics as the NBA, so eventually the same dynamics would arise.

Why? If they say no politics at work (MANY employers do that) some players will refuse to join the league (which is why I said the talent level could be lower). 

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7 hours ago, thedude15 said:

Go bankrupt and a different league will form with players that want to play basketball... Like I said the NBA can survive a year of this but if it becomes a pattern a different league will be created. Even if that league has vastly less talent if they actually focus on basketball it will have a following. Last I checked college sports have significantly less talent the the pros but they have a massive following.  

This is not to say that players/NBA is right or wrong to potentially cancel a season. I mean true change typically takes true sacrifice. It is just pointing out the obvious repercussions of that potential action.   

edit- and on a more literal level the NBA could fire the players that don't want to play. Pretty sure refusing to play would be a breach of contract. I mean if I refuse to go to work I would be fired. Now granted PR wise the NBA would never do that BUT there is a lot they can do. 

This is foolish.  A real risk is in place the NBA players could all move to Europe.  

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43 minutes ago, thedude15 said:

Why? If they say no politics at work (MANY employers do that) some players will refuse to join the league (which is why I said the talent level could be lower). 

There is no way in hell a basketball league would be able to enforce a “shut up and dribble” policy on its overwhelmingly black players. And yes, that’s exactly what the media would call it.

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7 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

No, Im not making an argument, I’m just saying it happens in both the police and military. How you deal with it and prevent it is a whole different subject. IMO it’s easier to deal with for a police force. 

If you weren’t making that argument, why did you bring that point up in two separate posts? 

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13 hours ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

It's possible the cop walks.  He just has to show he had a reasonable fear that Jacob was getting into his car to retrieve a weapon.  Supposedly, a yell to "put down the knife" was heard but we still haven't heard if a knife was ever found.

Jacob also has a history of violence and a pending rape charge.  He could have been known to the cops as a violent offender. 

I'm taking a 'wait and see' approach on this one. 

I'm not a liaryer, er I mean lawyer (I know who my parents were...)

But this is very true. Internet search "intent, law enforcement statutes."

Somebody yelled "knife". The cop thought he was reaching in the car to get a gun etc...

 

ezgif-5-959914ff2250.gif.f0cc4fc558f5a154dc6ff5904c80bf34.gif

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43 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

There is no way in hell a basketball league would be able to enforce a “shut up and dribble” policy on its overwhelmingly black players. And yes, that’s exactly what the media would call it.

Besides, so far the NBA owners have been much smarter about this than the NFL owners. 

These players, like Colin Kaepernick, are on the right side of history.

If this shit continues I wonder if the NFL and college players are far behind.

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12 hours ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

Your default posistion is to cast blame before you know the facts. All you need is white cop, black man shot, to declare  racism. 

The merits of the overall agenda you claim to support isn't an excuse for the level of intellectual laziness you consistently practice.

Its all about the narrative.  Like Ferguson, it won't matter what really happened if you just make it common knowledge that the police committed cold blooded murder.

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This is the NBA players saying we are human and we are hurting. We aren't just going to "shut up and play" People say"I watch sports for a distraction and don't want to see politics in it" well this is the players saying"we aren't just your entertainment pieces, we are people with feelings and thoughts and we have agency." They are hurting seeing these things. As doc brown said "Why do we keep loving a country that doesn't love us back"(saying they love this country and wish it loved them back not that they should stop loving it, it could be taken wrong when written down). Everything going on this year and them being in the bubble with no one else but around each other all the time is amplifying it. They get to talk about these things face to face and thing are very raw I imagine. I am not going to blame them for wanting to strike for a couple games or to cancel the rest of the season. Personally, I think the platform they have can keep things in the conversation more if they played but I don't know dick about it. I applaud them for taking a stance for their communities and taking personal risks for hteir stance, whether they decide to play basketball the rest of the season or not.

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9 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

The NBA doesn’t want to cancel the season. But the players have agency, and if they don’t want to play, what can the league do? 

Not pay them

Protest.Over.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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10 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

Unfortunately the answer is yes. It’s probably the least racist environment I’ve ever been in primarily because you have to heavily rely on each other. 

Wow. Thanks for your service. I’m impressed. 

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1 hour ago, SalinasSpartan said:

There is no way in hell a basketball league would be able to enforce a “shut up and dribble” policy on its overwhelmingly black players. And yes, that’s exactly what the media would call it.

You seem to think the NBA is important. It isn't. The vast majority of Americans don't watch it, don't follow it and don't give a shit if they play or if they don't.  There's a small percentage that do which will become even smaller by these actions.

What's their end game? Perfect "social justice"?  What's the next trigger that sends these pampered, over grown over paid, under-educated babies into a kicking screaming hissy fit?

This is protest on the cheap. The NBA is coddling their children.  Next season, when folks that pay 10's of thousands of dollars for season tickets start showing up at the arena only to find out the game is cancelled because someone, somewhere had something bad happen to them and LeBron is pissed about it, things will change. Rapidly

This form of protest/temper tantrum can only occur in a bubble. Real fans, with real money expecting to receive a real product will not stand for being ripped off.

This will not end well for the league and will in the grand scheme of things accomplish exactly ZERO.  This isn't like a strike. This is a clock that cannot be unwound.

Virtue signalling Uber alles....I guess....until paychecks stop showing up

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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