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thelawlorfaithful

OT: Tour de France 2020

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17 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Nice "bike path" huh?

The road surface looked nice and smooth. Everything else about it was as brutal as advertised. In a few years, with 500,000 people lining the road side, that  climb is gonna have major mystique. 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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3 hours ago, Jeffkills said:

I've never really understood the amount of unwavering disapproval of PEDs for sporting events, whatsoever.

I wish the NFL gave it's plays cart blanche ability to take any substance derived from a legal prescription..  Or, hell, then them have anything they want including Schedule I...

Remember that crazy Barry Bonds vs. Mark McGuire back-and-forth home-run derby from back in the day?

I take no issue with the substances they used, but it was quite interesting watching these guys taking deep shots over the stands, like every single game..

Same with Armstrong's HGH or Michael Phelps pot smoking...

Let these folks go out and perform as they desire...

Anyone remember how cranked up Lawrence Taylor used to get before EVERY single game?

We’ve seen it in cycling. The problem becomes not who is the best rider, but who has the resources to afford the best doctors. Guys were dying of heart attacks in their sleep because their blood was so thick trying to keep up. That sort of raising the chemical bar always filters down to the kids who, just love the sport and want to be a part it. So they’ll go out and try to dose themselves to be on the level. 

I got no problem if an adult openly wants to juice themselves with whatever and try to obliterate the hour record or some climb record. But the lying, the saying you’re doing it honestly, when everyone else they’re beating is forced to do the same stuff in order to have a job doesn’t sit well with people.

Like I said before though, they’re still doping. I don’t know how or with what, but it’s at a level where everyone is reasonably doing the same stuff.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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29 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

We’ve seen it in cycling. The problem becomes not who is the best rider, but who has the resources to afford the best doctors. Guys were dying of heart attacks in their sleep because their blood was so thick trying to keep up. That sort of raising the chemical bar always filters down to the kids who, just love the sport and want to be a part it. So they’ll go out and try to dose themselves to be on the level. 

I got no problem if an adult openly wants to juice themselves with whatever and try to obliterate the hour record or some climb record. But the lying, the saying you’re doing it honestly, when everyone else they’re beating is forced to do the same stuff in order to have a job doesn’t sit well with people.

Like I said before though, they’re still doping. I don’t know how or with what, but it’s at a level where everyone is reasonably doing the same stuff.

I wonder if the drug of choice isn't still EPO or something very similar.

It's still more or less undetectable, just keep it near the top end of normal range.

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Just now, renoskier said:

I wonder if the drug of choice isn't still EPO or something very similar.

It's still more or less undetectable, just keep it near the top end of normal range.

It’s bound to be something similar that they don’t know how to test for yet. In a few years all these samples will be retested and of course by then the peloton will have moved on to something else they’re not looking for, always one step ahead.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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To ride a bike that far don't you have to actually enjoy that seat shoved into your ass crack?

.......not that there's anything wrong with that.....

is that what all the spandex is about?

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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6QFr6Cs3WnbCnSCBnbov9m-970-80.jpg
A weird, half crazy guy from a Mennonite family once used a stage like this, on some of these very roads, to do the most infamous and amazing ride anyone has ever seen. None of these guys are going to try, let alone be able to do something like that. The race for yellow is effectively over. Roglic will not be undone and he is going to win the time trial handily. Pogacar looks strong enough to hold 2nd or 3rd. Lopez needs a little more time on Porte to feel safe, but he seems to be climbing better than anyone except Roglic in the third week. I think not much happens in the overall, nobody has the legs. Oh well. We’ll always have stage 17.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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20 hours ago, Jeffkills said:

Yes, they're peddling....  But that shit's badass! 

Talk about impending compound fractures, unstoppable internal bleeding, and debilitating lung collapses...

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Jeffkills said:

 

I'd like to see this crazy shit...

Anybody ever black-out/stroke out/suffer a cardiac, etc., then subsequently die?

 

I'm normal I promise - Here's Johnny | Meme Generator

 

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15 minutes ago, NMpackalum said:

How about that Sepp Kuss. Might have helped locked up the win for Roglic yesterday. I kind of wished they would have let him try for the stage win. 

I know -that's what I dislike about the tour the most, the team aspect.  Sepp was smiling and relaxed towards the finish and could have totally hung with the leader. 

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34 minutes ago, NMpackalum said:

How about that Sepp Kuss. Might have helped locked up the win for Roglic yesterday. I kind of wished they would have let him try for the stage win. 

 

12 minutes ago, bsu_alum9 said:

I know -that's what I dislike about the tour the most, the team aspect.  Sepp was smiling and relaxed towards the finish and could have totally hung with the leader. 

This is a good question for@thelawlorfaithful: when did "teams" become a thing in the tour? I don't believe they were a thing in the early days. 

Looked it up:

In the early years of the Tour de France, cyclists entered as individuals. Although they had sponsors, they were not allowed to work as a team, because tour organiser Henri Desgrange wanted the Tour de France to be a display of individual strength. In those years, cyclists could also participate unsponsored. They were categorized under different names;[1] 1909-1914: Isolés; 1919: Categorie B; 1920-1922: 2° Classe; 1923-1926: Touristes-Routiers; 1937: Individuels.

In 1930, Henri Desgrange gave up the idea that cyclist should race individually, and changed the format to real teams. He was still against sponsors assistance, so the cyclists were grouped in countries. This was the situation in the Tours of 1930–1961 and 1967–1968. Between 1962 and 1966 and after 1969, sponsored teams entered the race.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_classification_in_the_Tour_de_France#:~:text=Between 1962 and 1966 and,cyclists in the general classification.

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43 minutes ago, renoskier said:

 

This is a good question for@thelawlorfaithful: when did "teams" become a thing in the tour? I don't believe they were a thing in the early days. 

The single minded team tactics we’ve come accustomed to are a modern invention. Teams have been a part of the tour since the beginning. When the tour started at the turn of the last century, bike manufacturers would sponsor riders in the big races. Cycling was insane in that age and unified team tactics were near useless even if they had them, which they didn’t. A good leader could get cooperation from his teammates if they were capable, but back then everything was so hard that just surviving was an accomplishment. From the 30’s to the early 60’s the Tour switched from trade sponsored teams to national teams like we still have for the world championships. This caused some epic internal team infighting, but also helped to shape the sport towards a more team oriented strategy. And if we think Jumbo Visma or Sky were scary dominant, we never saw Italy show up with Fausto Coppi and Gino Bartali on the same team looking to wreck shop.

By the 90’s team tactics became vital. Not to the extent they are now, but it was a marked shift from 30 years earlier. If you go back and watch a YouTube of a sprint stage from the Indurain era the closing km are madness. Cippolini’s Saeco team is the only one that even tries to resemble a sprint train, which wouldn’t be perfected until High Road and Cavendish at which point it was copied by all sprint teams.

There was definitely team tactics for the overall race lead dating back to the national teams, but it wasn’t until the 70’s/80’s that it became almost more important than individual ability. US Postal refined and completely mastered it. Sky perfected it...until this year.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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1 hour ago, NMpackalum said:

How about that Sepp Kuss. Might have helped locked up the win for Roglic yesterday. I kind of wished they would have let him try for the stage win. 

He said afterwards that he realized he wasn’t going to be able to keep up with López so he sat up on his own. It was a clear headed move when everyone was in desperate straits. And it was his kick that popped Pogacar and essentially secured the tour for Roglic. Taking fourth, on that mountain with the best riders going full out for all the marbles, Kuss better get paid handsomely and given a chance at leadership in a grand tour. He’s earned it.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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31 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

The single minded team tactics we’ve come accustomed to are a modern invention. Teams have been a part of the tour since the beginning. When the tour started at the turn of the last century, bike manufacturers would sponsor riders in the big races. Cycling was insane in that age and unified team tactics were near useless even if they had them, which they didn’t. A good leader could get cooperation from his teammates if they were capable, but back then everything was so hard that just surviving was an accomplishment. From the 30’s to the early 60’s the Tour switched from trade sponsored teams to national teams like we still have for the world championships. This caused some epic internal team infighting, but also helped to shape the sport towards a more team oriented strategy. And if we think Jumbo Visma or Sky were scary dominant, we never saw Italy show up with Fausto Coppi and Gino Bartali on the same team looking to wreck shop.

By the 90’s team tactics became vital. Not to the extent they are now, but it was a marked shift from 30 years earlier. If you go back and watch a YouTube of a sprint stage from the Indurain era the closing km are madness. Cippolini’s Saeco team is the only one that even tries to resemble a sprint train, which wouldn’t be perfected until High Road and Cavendish at which point it was copied by all sprint teams.

There was definitely team tactics for the overall race lead dating back to the national teams, but it wasn’t until the 70’s/80’s that it became almost more important than individual ability. US Postal refined and completely mastered it. Sky perfected it...until this year.

Greg Lemond and Bernard Hinault had some epic blowups on their roles. Salary cap might be an interesting concept for bike racing to keep super teams from dominating. On the other hand, fans like to hate on super teams and root for underdogs and likely increases interest.

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38 minutes ago, NMpackalum said:

Greg Lemond and Bernard Hinault had some epic blowups on their roles. Salary cap might be an interesting concept for bike racing to keep super teams from dominating. On the other hand, fans like to hate on super teams and root for underdogs and likely increases interest.

A salary cap would make things more competitive. The problem is the money just isn’t there other than a few sponsors that want to have a Yankees or Dodgers. I don’t see it happening, if only because that means less money for most of the riders. With a few exceptions these guys are not multi-millionaires. It’s hard to get contract info, but Sepp Kuss might not even be making 6 figures, and that’s the fourth best climber in the world right now.

I do hope the talent gets spread more evenly somehow, I just don’t know how that happens.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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Ineos salvages the Tour by grabbing the polka dots and going 1 2 at the line. It’s good to see Kwiatkowski get the win. The former world champ has been in a thankless do it all role at the tour ever since he signed with the team five years ago. He’s a great rider. 

Elsewhere Landa put Yates and Uran’s podium hopes to the sword. Porte survived a flat tire at the worst possible moment. And the race said goodbye to the alps. No legendary suicide attack though.

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Remember the sprinters? Those poor bastards have been getting their asses kicked for more than a week straight. Finally they get one last shot at glory before Paris. The green jersey is technically still up for grabs, but it’s pretty much over. Sam Bennett has answered everything that Sagan and Bora have thrown at him. Even if Sagan wins tomorrow and in Paris, Bennett is going to finish close behind him and keep his lead. 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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So what do you think @renoskier, average tour? Better than last year?  How much does Zwift regret paying Geraint Thomas for 40,000 commercials when he’s not even at the race?

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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On 9/16/2020 at 7:13 PM, renoskier said:

I wonder if the drug of choice isn't still EPO or something very similar.

It's still more or less undetectable, just keep it near the top end of normal range.

I've read about this new drug called ITPP that increases blood release into tissues to increase endurance.  Supposedly there is a urine test for it, but haven't heard of anyone actually testing positive for it.

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9 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

So what do you think @renoskier, average tour? Better than last year?  How much does Zwift regret paying Geraint Thomas for 40,000 commercials when he’s not even at the race?

I enjoyed it more this year, although Jumbo Visma put a stranglehold on things once they wore the "yellow".

Some great new spots.

Don't follow it enough to know about the Thomas thing but the commentators did seem surprised that he wasn't included and Ineos was a non-factor. Hope that Sepp Kuss can make some noise in the future.

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Almost everyone has dead legs. The sprint teams couldn’t control the race so the days stage was seized by classics riders. Soren Kraigh Anderson powered away for his second win this tour while Sam Bennett marked Sagan and put an end to the green jersey competition. A time trial and then Paris. They’re almost home.

 8t8Ji2KJ3qdhvtiWbU2xFi-970-80.jpg
30 km of mostly flat terrain with the harsh climb of Planche des belles filles to make the final selection. We’ve seen this climb a lot in recent years. It’s steep if not particularly long. I think most of the contenders will opt for a bike change before starting the finale.

Roglic is the best time trialist. The final time trial of a grand tour is decided as much by who has the freshest legs than who is best in the discipline. I expect Roglic to retain yellow easily and possibly win the day, unless a specialist in the peloton has been taking it easy this week to rest the legs.

:57 Pogacar is a baby, he doesn’t even turn 22 until next week, so he’s a wildcard. He’s ridden a solid time trial in the Vuelta last year, conceding 90 seconds to Roglic on a flatter course. Everything point to him not being able to claw back that minute. Then again young legs are young legs. If he hits the bottom of the climb with any sort of lead hold on to your butts.

1:27 Lopez

3:06 Porte

3:28 Landa

This is the real race. López is just average enough at time trialing that he might be able to hold on, but I expect a furious assault from Porte. He’s never finished on the podium in a grand tour and he’s already said this will be his final chance as a leader to go for a high place (he’s signed with Ineos next year to be a donestique). 2 minutes is a lot to ask from Landa but he close enough that he should be mentioned. He did still have the legs to throw an attack in yesterday, so all hope might not be lost.

The race of truth, or the race against truth, as that awesome, crazy, old man likes to say.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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