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Del Scorcho

COVID-19 the Unraveling of America

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https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/covid-19-end-of-american-era-wade-davis-1038206/

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Unsettling as these transitions and circumstances will be, short of a complete economic collapse, none stands out as a turning point in history. But what surely does is the absolutely devastating impact that the pandemic has had on the reputation and international standing of the United States of America.  In a dark season of pestilence, COVID has reduced to tatters the illusion of American exceptionalism. ....

not a comfortable read if your patriotism exceeds your realism

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4 minutes ago, Del Scorcho said:

Seems like pure hyperbole.

The whole world is struggling with this COVID situation.  Not just the United States. 

Also, it's a narrative / agenda trying to blame the economic slowdown, or infections on Trump.   

World won't return to normal until we get a vaccine.

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1 minute ago, #1Stunner said:

Seems like pure hyperbole.

The whole world is struggling with this COVID situation.  Not just the United States. 

Also, it's a narrative / agenda trying to blame the economic slowdown, or infections on Trump.   

World won't return to normal until we get a vaccine.

if only we could struggle like Canada or Japan?

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1 minute ago, Del Scorcho said:

if only we could struggle like Canada or Japan?

It would be nice if we performed better, but this thing is not done playing out.  If vaccines wipe it out, then great, and we really did this wrong.  If vaccines don't work?  What then?  All these countries really did was kick the can down the road while we were learning how to deal with this thing and not stay in lock down.  Does New Zealand stay isolated from the rest of the world forever?  Is there a 2 week quarantine when traveling internationally in perpetuity?

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1 minute ago, BYUcougfan said:

It would be nice if we performed better, but this thing is not done playing out.  If vaccines wipe it out, then great, and we really did this wrong.  If vaccines don't work?  What then?  All these countries really did was kick the can down the road while we were learning how to deal with this thing and not stay in lock down.  Does New Zealand stay isolated from the rest of the world forever?  Is there a 2 week quarantine when traveling internationally in perpetuity?

fair point

it does seem like there is evidence of nations that have fared extremely well initially now having flare ups.

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14 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Seems like pure hyperbole.

The whole world is struggling with this COVID situation.  Not just the United States. 

In today's LA Times there's an article saying the same as Rolling Stone. Particularly surprising is the extent to which Italy is now looking down on us.

4-5 months ago, Italy was a complete mess. Then they completely shut things down and that made all the difference. I thought at the time the Italians were dumb. Now I realize it was we Americans who were dumb and who continue to be really dumb with idiocy like the Sturgis bike rally with virtually nobody wearing masks.

 

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4 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

It would be nice if we performed better, but this thing is not done playing out.  If vaccines wipe it out, then great, and we really did this wrong.  If vaccines don't work?  What then?  All these countries really did was kick the can down the road while we were learning how to deal with this thing and not stay in lock down.  Does New Zealand stay isolated from the rest of the world forever?  Is there a 2 week quarantine when traveling internationally in perpetuity?

If "kicking the can down the road" saved lives, why wouldn't we be for that?  Does keeping those dirty diseased Americans off of their island keep the citizens of New Zealand safer?  I remember isolating ourselves from the southern invaders being a valid means of saving our citizens.  At least that is what we were told.  Turns out we think isolation is over rates when applied to us.

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12 minutes ago, Del Scorcho said:

if only we could struggle like Canada or Japan?

Apples to Oranges.

As you already pointed out, we have a lot of fat people in the United States....  People in the US don't all weight 100 pounds like in Japan.

Plus, we had the CDC lie to Americans for 2 to 3 months, telling everyone not to wear masks.   We also had huge groups of people gather to protest racism...  That didn't help things.

 

Are you under the mistaken impression that Canada is not struggling right now?

Here's a quick look at Canada's June employment (numbers from the previous month in brackets):

 Unemployment rate: 12.3 per cent (13.7)
 Employment rate: 56.0 per cent (52.9)
 Participation rate: 63.8 per cent (61.4)
 Number unemployed: 2,452,600 (2,619,200)
 Number working: 17,427,400 (16,474,500)
 Youth (15-24 years) unemployment rate: 27.5 per cent (29.4)
 Men (25 plus) unemployment rate: 9.5 per cent (11.1)
 Women (25 plus) unemployment rate: 10.4 per cent (11.8)

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11 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

In today's LA Times there's an article saying the same as Rolling Stone. Particularly surprising is the extent to which Italy is now looking down on us.

4-5 months ago, Italy was a complete mess. Then they completely shut things down and that made all the difference. I thought at the time the Italians were dumb. Now I realize it was we Americans who were dumb and who continue to be really dumb with idiocy like the Sturgis bike rally with virtually nobody wearing masks.

 

There are always downsides to the way we run our free society.  For Covid, it is these kinds of things where people lack any sense of personal accountability.  I think Utah right now is showing how things can change without a big government edict.  We were getting out of control 3 to 4 weeks ago.  The mask mandates in Salt Lake County and Summit County were not really making much of a difference.  Then, the governor plead with the citizens to be careful, wear masks, etc.  The Church plead with members to be careful, wear masks, etc.  There were no further restrictions, but the numbers have come down drastically in the last week and a half.  I am sure the masks had an impact, but people just not being stupid and acting as if nothing is wrong made a huge difference.

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7 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

In today's LA Times there's an article saying the same as Rolling Stone. Particularly surprising is the extent to which Italy is now looking down on us.

4-5 months ago, Italy was a complete mess. Then they completely shut things down and that made all the difference. I thought at the time the Italians were dumb. Now I realize it was we Americans who were dumb and who continue to be really dumb with idiocy like the Sturgis bike rally with virtually nobody wearing masks.

 

Italy has hardly recovered.

Their economy has (and is) taking a huge hit.

 

I know people badly want to push the virus all on Donald Trump, but it is what it is.   This is a world-wide pandemic.  

Get ready to see the economic fallout in about a year. 

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2 minutes ago, PokeTransplant said:

If "kicking the can down the road" saved lives, why wouldn't we be for that?  Does keeping those dirty diseased Americans off of their island keep the citizens of New Zealand safer?  I remember isolating ourselves from the southern invaders being a valid means of saving our citizens.  At least that is what we were told.  Turns out we think isolation is over rates when applied to us.

If vaccines are not successful, then these countries did not really save any lives.  No country can stay isolated or locked down forever.  If vaccines are not successful or only marginally successful, then it could be that we will be far ahead in how to deal with this and still allow life to go on.  If the vaccines are really successful, then we screwed the pooch.

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10 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

In today's LA Times there's an article saying the same as Rolling Stone. Particularly surprising is the extent to which Italy is now looking down on us.

4-5 months ago, Italy was a complete mess. Then they completely shut things down and that made all the difference. I thought at the time the Italians were dumb. Now I realize it was we Americans who were dumb and who continue to be really dumb with idiocy like the Sturgis bike rally with virtually nobody wearing masks.

 

That's called people looking for news to confirm their beliefs.

Your two outlets, currently pushing the narrative of Hopelessness ..... probably up to November...

Then after that, if Biden wins, the narrative will do a 180, and all the news stories will be about "a renewed hope", and "America is rising again" and "perseverance".

 

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1 minute ago, BYUcougfan said:

If vaccines are not successful, then these countries did not really save any lives.  No country can stay isolated or locked down forever.  If vaccines are not successful or only marginally successful, then it could be that we will be far ahead in how to deal with this and still allow life to go on.  If the vaccines are really successful, then we screwed the pooch.

If the initial vaccines are unsuccessful, they at least bought people time to take other precautions instead of throwing their hands up and saying "it is what it is" when people are dying.

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Just now, PokeTransplant said:

If the initial vaccines are unsuccessful, they at least bought people time to take other precautions instead of throwing their hands up and saying "it is what it is" when people are dying.

If vaccines are successful, then we did it wrong.  What more do you want me to say?  What if they are as successful in limiting spread as flu vaccines?  A real possibility.  If that happens, then all that has happened is we have been figuring out what works and what does not work for us.  There are no neat and tidy answers here.

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17 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Apples to Oranges.

As you already pointed out, we have a lot of fat people in the United States....  People in the US don't all weight 100 pounds like in Japan.

Plus, we had the CDC lie to Americans for 2 to 3 months, telling everyone not to wear masks.   We also had huge groups of people gather to protest racism...  That didn't help things.

 

Are you under the mistaken impression that Canada is not struggling right now?

Here's a quick look at Canada's June employment (numbers from the previous month in brackets):

 Unemployment rate: 12.3 per cent (13.7)
 Employment rate: 56.0 per cent (52.9)
 Participation rate: 63.8 per cent (61.4)
 Number unemployed: 2,452,600 (2,619,200)
 Number working: 17,427,400 (16,474,500)
 Youth (15-24 years) unemployment rate: 27.5 per cent (29.4)
 Men (25 plus) unemployment rate: 9.5 per cent (11.1)
 Women (25 plus) unemployment rate: 10.4 per cent (11.8)

Canada's unemployment rate jumped 6% since the Pandemic started, the US jumped 7%

How about Japan's unemployment rate currently its below 3%

No matter how you slice it the US isn't winning.

Certainly Trump isn't to blame for the Pandemic itself, but you could easily make an argument that his lack of leadership, confusion he created with the CDC and his own staff can be attributed to the deaths of 1,000 of additional American's.  He's been a disaster

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33 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

It would be nice if we performed better, but this thing is not done playing out.  If vaccines wipe it out, then great, and we really did this wrong.  If vaccines don't work?  What then?  All these countries really did was kick the can down the road while we were learning how to deal with this thing and not stay in lock down.  Does New Zealand stay isolated from the rest of the world forever?  Is there a 2 week quarantine when traveling internationally in perpetuity?

Great statement.

You said it best.

Really, if, and until, we get a vaccine, we are all screwed.  Or otherwise, we'll just have to accept the risks, and what comes with them. 

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Everyone is pointing fingers, but they simply fail to accept when they are wrong and then they double down on being wrong rather than make the necessary adjustments. Trump was wrong, Fauci was wrong, CDC was wrong, WHO was wrong, state governors were wrong, city mayors were wrong, city councils were wrong, the news media was wrong. It's okay to be wrong, but it goes a long way to admit the mistake and correct yourself rather than double down on pride and wade through the sweeping currents hoping to reach the other side without drowning. We all have an equal role to play in this, but pride will be our downfall.       

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19 minutes ago, Del Scorcho said:

Canada's unemployment rate jumped 6% since the Pandemic started, the US jumped 7%

How about Japan's unemployment rate currently its below 3%

No matter how you slice it the US isn't winning.

Certainly Trump isn't to blame for the Pandemic itself, but you could easily make an argument that his lack of leadership, confusion he created with the CDC and his own staff can be attributed to the deaths of 1,000 of additional American's.  He's been a disaster

Canada flattened the curve, better than the United States, no doubt.

But their population is not any more immune from the virus than Americans are right now.  Maybe less immune... (because they locked down).   Can they stay locked down forever? what about when winter comes in Canada?   They are hoping for a miracle vaccine right now, same as us.   I guess we are closer to herd immunity. 

 

The CDC did a great disservice at the outset, by lying to Americans and telling us all for 2-3 months not to wear masks.   The protests and large summer BBQs weren't a great idea...  No politicians wanted to stop either one. 

 

Plus, this whole thing has gotten so political, it's a joke.  We don't even know the true death rate, because American hospitals aren't like hospitals in other countries, and all have to lie and call every death a COVID death, so they can get federal bailout money.   So we don't even know if the numbers in the US are accurate. 

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1 hour ago, BYUcougfan said:

It would be nice if we performed better, but this thing is not done playing out.  If vaccines wipe it out, then great, and we really did this wrong.  If vaccines don't work?  What then?  All these countries really did was kick the can down the road while we were learning how to deal with this thing and not stay in lock down.  Does New Zealand stay isolated from the rest of the world forever?  Is there a 2 week quarantine when traveling internationally in perpetuity?

Are we going to declare victory because we boldly shoveled more people into mass graves while other countries were more thoughtful about human life?  

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41 minutes ago, ridgeview2 said:

Everyone is pointing fingers, but they simply fail to accept when they are wrong and then they double down on being wrong rather than make the necessary adjustments. Trump was wrong, Fauci was wrong, CDC was wrong, WHO was wrong, state governors were wrong, city mayors were wrong, city councils were wrong, the news media was wrong. It's okay to be wrong, but it goes a long way to admit the mistake and correct yourself rather than double down on pride and wade through the sweeping currents hoping to reach the other side without drowning. We all have an equal role to play in this, but pride will be our downfall.       

Nice bothsiderism.  Bothsiderism is one of the things that has rotted this country the most.  It is kinda like blaming the rapee for wearing provacative clothing.  The virus response of the Federal government is squarely at Trump and Republican feet.  "Both sides" didn't coordinate the response or we would probably have a situation more comparable to Canada or Germany.  That would have been a "both sides" hand wringing response if we were Canada or Germany.

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