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Nevada Convert

Election Prediction

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2 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

There is an easy fix for in-person voting.  Require identification.  I know....black people aren't capable of getting I.D.s so it is racist.

No, it's unconstitutional unless you waive ID costs and provide free ID.

Also, it doesn't remove fraud potential. Just... get fake IDs. Like high school kids do all the time. Lol. All they do is check the name. And there's a myriad list of acceptable IDs. And there's no clearinghouse. 

It's like our electoral system is an inherent disaster and always has been and is essentially held together by the goodwill of volunteers and voters themselves and if that disappears so does our democracy IMMEDIATELY the same way it was not a democracy for over a hundred years after the Civil War in about half the country.

You're making something that isn't a recorded problem more important than something that is. You just care cause teams and shit. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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1 minute ago, happycamper said:

No, it's unconstitutional unless you waive ID costs and provide free ID.

Also, it doesn't remove fraud potential. Just... get fake IDs. Like high school kids do all the time. Lol. All they do is check the name. And there's a myriad list of acceptable IDs. And there's no clearinghouse. 

It's like our electoral system is an inherent disaster and always has been and is essentially held together by the goodwill of volunteers and voters themselves and if that disappears so does our democracy IMMEDIATELY the same way it was not a democracy for over a hundred years after the Civil War in about half the country.

You're making something that isn't a recorded problem more important than something that is. You just care cause teams and shit. 

Not true at all.  As I already posted, I don't see an alternative and that it won't be any more or less fraudulent than in the past.  I take issue with folks that can't seem to conceive of any way the process could be compromised.

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27 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

This could be a disaster if someone fills out the bubble sheet incorrectly.

This is like the AL GORE / W BUSH election all over again.

 

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Hard to believe that the multi-talented Mosie Boyd outlasted Kamala Harris in the California primary.

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8 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

If you don't like the argument, you can always bring up a person's religion, or make references to it.

@BYUcougfan

I was just funnin' you; no offense meant.

As you may have noticed from the totality of my posts, unlike many here, I think Momons are just fine. My only real objection is the extent to which some factions within the LDS church, and that would include BYU, have the same ridiculous viewpoint on religion that I encountered as a Baptist. Which is to say that rather than thinking for yourself, they want you to believe everything they tell you regardless of how illogical a voice within your brain tells you it is. I've had a lot of Jewish friends and one thing I've always respected about that religion is that its leaders try to dissuade members from being mere sheep and I urge you to do the same.

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6 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

 

 

If you don't like the argument, you can always bring up a person's religion, or make references to it.

Yikes!

@BYUcougfan

 

Maybe @smltwnrckr can give us the list of approved smltwnrckr news sources.  I know Fox News is out.  Apparently the Deseret News is out (although I doubt smltwnrckr has actually read much content from them).  Any others we are not allowed to use?  Is the Wall Street Journal ok?  Or does it all have to come from The NY Times, the LA Times, and Rachel Maddow?

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Just now, BYUcougfan said:

Not true at all.  As I already posted, I don't see an alternative and that it won't be any more or less fraudulent than in the past.  I take issue with folks that can't seem to conceive of any way the process could be compromised.

I feel like this is reasonable. But. You haven't spent this much energy, ever, on talking about how fraudulent elections are typically, so it seems disingenuous to spend that much energy talking about it now for mail in voting. And yes I'm absolutely aware that I am super guilty of doing the exact same thing on other topics and feel free to drag my ass when you catch me doing it. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Guest #1Stunner
6 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

I was just funnin' you; no offense meant.

As you may have noticed from the totality of my posts, unlike many here, I think Momons are just fine. My only real objection is the extent to which some factions within the LDS church, and that would include BYU, have the same ridiculous viewpoint on religion that I encountered as a Baptist. Which is to say that rather than thinking for yourself, they want you to believe everything they tell you regardless of how illogical a voice within your brain tells you it is. I've had a lot of Jewish friends and one thing I've always respected about that religion is that its leaders try to dissuade members from being mere sheep and I urge you to do the same.

 

OK

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10 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

K

One other thing.

Although I disagree with you a lot, I respect the fact you obviously make some effort to educate yourself. No better example than you standing in and taking a bunch of guff from so many of the rest of us here. Accordingly, you clearly value education and as Sir Francis Bacon so aptly put it, knowledge is power.

The opposite is the service guy at the dealership I take my car to. He and I have known each other for ~15 years given how much time my cars have spent in the shop so we've had numerous conversations. He's a great guy and knows cars like the back of his hand. He also knows sports. However, I sense he knows next to nothing about anything else and I found out a couple weeks ago he's a big Trump supporter and that the only news network he ever watches is Fox. The guy's claim to fame is that he played DB for a HS here in the 818 and when he played against Granada Hills HS he intercepted a pass thrown by John Elway. Had I done that, I'm sure I'd tell other football fans about it too but he's done so a couple times and when I notice what a huge gut the guy has these days, it just sounds really sad (kinda like Al Bundy). Don't let yourself become a guy like that.

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1 hour ago, tspoke said:

The person has to be registered to vote in the district. and they would need the exact ballot from each district. Do you know how many different ballots there are in each county. What you are suggesting is laughably impossible.

It's not hard to find out who is a registered D or R in a toss up district or state. You then have political operatives rummaging through mail boxes and pulling the mail in ballots before the real voter sees it. So, all do is pull roughly 10% of R ballots. Fill them in with Dem candidates and you have flipped a red district to blue.

I'm sure it's not to hard to find what info you need to falsely vote in someone's place.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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25 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

 

 

If you don't like the argument, you can always bring up a person's religion, or make references to it.

Yikes!

@BYUcougfan

 

Lol... The Postmodern Mormon thing has nothing to do with your "argument" it was about your persona on here in general. You're a walking posting contradiction . Stop being a twit. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Guest #1Stunner
2 minutes ago, Spaztecs said:

How about canvassers rummaging through mail boxes and pulling the mail in ballots before the real voter sees it.

Then getting your team to vote in their place ? I'm sure it's not to hard to find what info you need to falsely vote in their place.

Sadly, this is a possibility in Ogden. 

I could see some young partisans trying to do this.   

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18 minutes ago, happycamper said:

I feel like this is reasonable. But. You haven't spent this much energy, ever, on talking about how fraudulent elections are typically, so it seems disingenuous to spend that much energy talking about it now for mail in voting. And yes I'm absolutely aware that I am super guilty of doing the exact same thing on other topics and feel free to drag my ass when you catch me doing it. 

You know how it goes.  Conversations get going and you weigh in.  This is not a hot topic for me.  I am not arguing that we not have the election or not have mail-in ballots.

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1 hour ago, BYUcougfan said:

The problem is that you have nailed them down on ways mail-in ballots are subject to fraud.  Once that happens then the only thing left is to call it a gag or say you are trolling.  That is a lot easier than explaining how mail-in ballots keep folks from completing and mailing ballots that are not intended for them.  Maybe it could impact a close election...maybe not.  But the opportunity is there and it would be nearly impossible to detect.  They are stuck with the whole "mail-in ballots are 100% safe" line.

 

32 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

Maybe @smltwnrckr can give us the list of approved smltwnrckr news sources.  I know Fox News is out.  Apparently the Deseret News is out (although I doubt smltwnrckr has actually read much content from them).  Any others we are not allowed to use?  Is the Wall Street Journal ok?  Or does it all have to come from The NY Times, the LA Times, and Rachel Maddow?

This has nothing to do with news sources. Or with any argument that anything is 100% safe. This has to do with the fact that Stunner hasn't nailed anything down, nor have you or anyone else. Give me a plausible scenario in which mail-in ballot fraud is perpetrated by a foreign power. I'll wait forever if I have to. And I know I'll have to, because there isn't one.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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2 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

I'm actually surprised how dismissive Democrats are of the Russians and Chinese...

I've never heard a reason why mail ballots are a strategic advantage for just Democrats, and why in-person voting only helps Republicans...

R's are historically more hard core voters. They have higher turnout rates than registered Dems.

R's historically vote absentee at higher rates and are more likely to vote before noon. Dems are more likely to vote after work.

 

 

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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2 hours ago, Spaztecs said:

It prevents them from voting because many States have said there will be no in person voting. How else you gonna vote ?  Is everybody going to move  to the left or right side of the room on election day ? Trump believes that mail in voting hurts R's. He said it numerous times. Trumpistan believes that only Dems and not R's will fraudulently cast mail in ballots.

  The rules for most States seem to be similiar for mail in and absentee voting. The difference between mail in ballots and absentee voting is, mail in ballots have to be verified and counted. Absentee ballots are only counted if the margin of victory is less then the total number of absentee ballots.  R's have historically understood that lower voter turnout usually mean R wins.

Trumpistan also believes in shutting down polling locations. Esp in Dem districts because there won't be enough poll workers due to virus fears, etc  So, if we only open the ones in R districts, mostly R's will vote. D's won't be allowed to because they are in the wrong precincts. They will have to cast provisional ballots that won't be counted. They won't be allowed to vote by mail. 

So, the R's win because we know they vote early and often and theirs will be the only votes counted.

 

 

You just indicated voting can be changed by fraudulent practices. 

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Guest #1Stunner
4 minutes ago, Spaztecs said:

R's are historically more hard core voters. They have higher turnouts than registered Dems.

R's historically vote absentee at higher rates and are more likely to vote before noon. Dems are more likely to vote after work.

 

They really need to allow in-person voting over the course of many weeks. 

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1 hour ago, #1Stunner said:

China and Russia want election chaos.

I could see them plausibly printing duplicate ballots, and filling them out in a legit citizen's name.

Can you imagine the chaos and illegitimacy of the election if they get like 10 mail in ballots from the "same" person????  Or 10 ballots from one household?!?!

Or a mail ballot from 10,000 Yao Mings???

Or sending out ballots that are not for your district. Most voters have no clue who is running in their district or for County recorder.

If I'm an R wanting to flip a blue district,  I would definitely want to mail out ballots to registered Dems that have the wrong Dem candidates for those districts. This Dem votes will never get counted. You only have to mess with 5-10% of the mailed out ballots.

The vast majority of the electorate would never know if they have the correct ballot for their district or not.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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36 minutes ago, 818SUDSFan said:

I was just funnin' you; no offense meant.

As you may have noticed from the totality of my posts, unlike many here, I think Momons are just fine. My only real objection is the extent to which some factions within the LDS church, and that would include BYU, have the same ridiculous viewpoint on religion that I encountered as a Baptist. Which is to say that rather than thinking for yourself, they want you to believe everything they tell you regardless of how illogical a voice within your brain tells you it is. I've had a lot of Jewish friends and one thing I've always respected about that religion is that its leaders try to dissuade members from being mere sheep and I urge you to do the same.

So to summarize "I think Mormons are fine for a bunch of sheep who can't think for themselves, but unlike the others totally not a bigot, I know a Jew".

 

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1 minute ago, Spaztecs said:

Or sending out ballots that are not for your district. Most voters have no clue who is running in their district or for County recorder.

If I'm an R wanting to flip a blue district,  I would definitely want to mail out ballots to registered Dems that have the wrong Dem candidates for those districts. This Dem votes will never get counted. You only have to mess with 5-10% of the mailed out ballots.

The vast majority of the electorate would never know if they have the correct ballot for their district or not.

That's a great plan for getting caught. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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