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FresnoFacts

150 Homeland Security Agents Being Sent to Chicago

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16 hours ago, NVGiant said:

I don’t believe you should fear the government “especially in a democracy.” I’d fear an autocratic government more. I don’t think that was your point though. Regardless, this is some scary shit.

Why it’s hard to thread the needle? I don’t know. For the most part, we have managed to do it to varying degrees of success. But we’re not threading it well now.

People should always be wary of govt. Govt always tends to overreach in a crisis. This response in Portland is a perfect example. It was made possible by the biggest overreach since WWII’s internment camps, The Patriot Act. This federal response is actually authorized by parts of the Patriot Act and the administration’s classification of ANTIFA as a terrorist organization. Everyone looked the other way when the Patriot Act was passed, they looked the other way every time it comes up for re-authorization, and they’re looking the other way now. If you support the Patriot Act, you have no right to bitch about the overreach happening in Portland.

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11 hours ago, SharkTanked said:

A proactive arrest might be the scariest thing I have heard from the government, ever.

I mean that has to be the clearest definition of facism I have heard.

If anything this proves there is a whole lot of the Federal Government that immediately needs to be abolished. DHS is first up and ICE is on deck.

This whole episode immediately changed my vote to Libertarian. As far as I can tell, both major parties want to shred the Bill of Rights. 

You win @BSUTOP25

Welcome home. Ignore @sactowndog when he inevitably starts to vote shame you. 

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15 minutes ago, sean327 said:

People should always be wary of govt. Govt always tends to overreach in a crisis. This response in Portland is a perfect example. It was made possible by the biggest overreach since WWII’s internment camps, The Patriot Act. This federal response is actually authorized by parts of the Patriot Act and the administration’s classification of ANTIFA as a terrorist organization. Everyone looked the other way when the Patriot Act was passed, they looked the other way every time it comes up for re-authorization, and they’re looking the other way now. If you support the Patriot Act, you have no right to bitch about the overreach happening in Portland.

I certainly don't support the Patriot Act. In fact, Ron Wyden, our senator, has been at the forefront of the anti-Patriot Act argument for nearly two decades. Just makes this all the more galling. 

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4 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

There has been lots of vote shaming going around lately. 

Right.  Something about voting for a pedophile.  :shrug:

 

and for the record @sean327 I also would like to see the Libertarian Party get to 5% and earn matching funds.  It’s why I offered you a multi vote trade.    

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23 minutes ago, sean327 said:

People should always be wary of govt. Govt always tends to overreach in a crisis. This response in Portland is a perfect example. It was made possible by the biggest overreach since WWII’s internment camps, The Patriot Act. This federal response is actually authorized by parts of the Patriot Act and the administration’s classification of ANTIFA as a terrorist organization. Everyone looked the other way when the Patriot Act was passed, they looked the other way every time it comes up for re-authorization, and they’re looking the other way now. If you support the Patriot Act, you have no right to bitch about the overreach happening in Portland.

I agree and you might find many of us against Portland were also opposed to the Patriot Act and the whole FISA court structure.  

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@sean327  you gave me the idiot button for saying I wanted the Libertarian Party to reach 5% and offering a reasonable way of reaching it?

your really that wrapped up in your team???  
 

You do know vote trading is how this country operated when it used to function.  

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21 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

I certainly don't support the Patriot Act. In fact, Ron Wyden, our senator, has been at the forefront of the anti-Patriot Act argument for nearly two decades. Just makes this all the more galling. 

Though if there's one thing this shows, it's that people who pooh pooh arguments that state power will be used in ways that were not intended when that power was granted... they should be a little more willing to think about it next time.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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6 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

@sean327  you gave me the idiot button for saying I wanted the Libertarian Party to reach 5% and offering a reasonable way of reaching it?

your really that wrapped up in your team???  
 

You do know vote trading is how this country operated when it used to function.  

You received the coveted idiot button because of your idiotic vote trading scheme.

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32 minutes ago, sean327 said:

People should always be wary of govt. Govt always tends to overreach in a crisis. This response in Portland is a perfect example. It was made possible by the biggest overreach since WWII’s internment camps, The Patriot Act. This federal response is actually authorized by parts of the Patriot Act and the administration’s classification of ANTIFA as a terrorist organization. Everyone looked the other way when the Patriot Act was passed, they looked the other way every time it comes up for re-authorization, and they’re looking the other way now. If you support the Patriot Act, you have no right to bitch about the overreach happening in Portland.

IS that true? I heard that the Patriot act only works for foreign terrorist organizations. there's no domestic terrorism classification; the administration is operating outside of the bounds of even the Patriot Act just because.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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1 minute ago, happycamper said:

IS that true? I heard that the Patriot act only works for foreign terrorist organizations. there's no domestic terrorism classification; the administration is operating outside of the bounds of even the Patriot Act just because.

was DHS created as part of the Patriot Act? Honest question - I don't remember. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

was DHS created as part of the Patriot Act? Honest question - I don't remember. 

Also, I know that DHS has a little known power of surveillance over American citizens in instances of threats to federal facilities (meant for dams and other potential targets), and they are supposedly using this in Portland. Was that part of Patriot act?

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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20 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Are buildings set on fire with people in them a week before the feds ever get there dangerous enough? Looting, vandalism? 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/local/protests/protesters-set-fire-to-police-precinct-damage-businesses-in-north-portland/283-59c6bd42-1bf1-47b9-9e9a-4d7c84f957f5

At what point do the excuses and qualifiers end amongst adults? Need we wait to find a body in the burned building, or is even that not enough?

https://m.startribune.com/body-found-in-wreckage-of-mpls-pawn-shop-burned-during-george-floyd-unrest/571838681/

Did they catch the people in your first link? Are they investigating this or just rounding up people on the street wearing black with masks on at a protest?

As far as the second link, it looks like they caught the guy and he is in some deep shit. As he should be. Feds didn't have to around rounding anybody up. 

Others have replied enough to this but didn't want to dissappear without replying. The arguments for this seem to be going in circles for weeks. Not much is gained from it anymore. 

The more we talk about how they are protesting, the less we talk about why they are protesting. 

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On 7/21/2020 at 10:06 AM, TheSanDiegan said:

And where are the militias that are supposed to stand up to tyranny?

Seems like someone needs to shine that giant belt buckle-shaped spotlight in the sky so the Bundy Boiz can saddle up and ride again.

You asked for it, sadly.  Bundy planning on attending protests in solidarity with the protesters here in Boise.

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3 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

You asked for it, sadly.  Bundy planning on attending protests in solidarity with the protesters here in Boise.

Not surprised. I really thought he'd be making an appearance in Portland.

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I simply do not believe the reports of masses of people being swept up indiscriminately by feds with no markings identifying them (therefore making them impossible to distinguish from the "right wing extremists"), as been reported. IMO, that's just not true. First of all, there are few, if any, far right extremists down there to begin with from what I've been told. Second, the  uniformed feds are all wearing exactly the same thing and all of them are clearly marked "Police" while the undercover feds are.....undercover. Shocking, I know. I have seen footage of a few people arrested and put into unmarked vans, but relatively few. Surely footage of wide swaths of people being hauled into unmarked minivans....logistics of that be-damned....would be everywhere. 

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45 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Though if there's one thing this shows, it's that people who pooh pooh arguments that state power will be used in ways that were not intended when that power was granted... they should be a little more willing to think about it next time.

Of course they should be wary of government power. They should be wary of all power, public or private.

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3 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Of course they should be wary of government power. They should be wary of all power, public or private.

Definitely. One must be wary of all power, but Apple won't sent "troops" to my city if we defy them. Though I wouldn't be shocked if Trump decides to bring back the Pinkertons in a second term.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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2 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Definitely. One must be wary of all power, but Apple won't sent "troops" to my city if we defy them. Though I wouldn't be shocked if Trump decides to bring back the Pinkertons in a second term.

There is just as much danger in state and city government officials being indifferent towards rioters and looters breaking the law while the other half (or 25% in the case of Portland) of their constituents suffer. 

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Just now, Slapdad said:

There is just as much danger in state and city government officials being indifferent towards rioters and looters breaking the law while the other half (or 25% in the case of Portland) of their constituents suffer. 

No there's not. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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