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Akkula

Next Stimulus Strategy

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I can get on the train of helping kids today pay off student loans. It's rediculous how expensive school has gotten today.

Just in my experience and my profession, kids today are graduating with an avg of 150k-200k+ in student loans and in many cases are making a lot less than me. I graduated with 30k and partied my ass of in school. I paid off my student loans easily but it doesn't make me feel like kids today don't deserve some forgiveness.

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19 hours ago, Spaztecs said:

Not really. 

personally know many people who work for small businesses, whom after their employer got their money, told them to go on unemployment and then were asked to work for w/o employer compensation or lose their jobs.

Many wound up quitting.

Then those business owners are on the hook for the loans. They won’t be forgiven. On the other hand, my employees know nothing about the business financing despite what they may think. You have to document payroll information year over year.

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1 hour ago, retrofade said:

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But why?

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Nancy's latest Covid relief bill has $25 billion for the post office, but that was the Democrats, so it did not even register for you.  Surprising really, since you are a self proclaimed non-partisan.

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1 minute ago, BYUcougfan said:

Nancy's latest Covid relief bill has $25 billion for the post office, but that was the Democrats, so it did not even register for you.  Surprising really, since you are a self proclaimed non-partisan.

I was aware of that as well, and thought it was stupid. I've even said in the past that these bills all need to be targeted for relief, not trying to shove all kinds of other stuff in them. 

That all said, I was commenting on what in the posted article, and the nugget about the Post Office in the House bill wasn't in there. But hey man, you keep doing you.

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10 minutes ago, Bob said:

The pandemics were similar from a death toll standpoint and killed much more young people, but whatever you say.

Bob the Asian flu killed 70,000-116,000 people in the US. and the 1968 pandemic killed 100,000. Again, those both killed mostly old people. We're well past that for Covid and we're seeing 500-1,000 people dying a day with the end seeming to be mass vaccination. Wanna assume that goes smoothly?

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The only measure that will ameliorate this pandemic long-term is herd immunity. Lockdowns and masks ostensibly suppress the virus and draw out the period the virus is present in the population. How does that help?  You are in favor of the government restricting free commerce and then providing for the people that cannot work thus making them dependent on government. Smells like communism to me.

What do you think vaccinations are? Why do you think we're trying to prevent the virus before vaccinations? For that matter, what do you think rushing headlong towards "herd immunity" looks like? Furthermore, what do you think "restricting free commerce" is? I mean, tarriffs are that, and so are taxes, and so are laws like worker's comp. The 1870s did not, uh, work great, bob. 

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The bailouts are a tough pill for me to swallow. I suppose we should do something for the people that literally had their jobs taken away by government, which is utter bullshit. The whole thing makes me distraught. But, surely, please tell me you can morally see the difference between throwing someone $1,200.00 because the government literally took away their job and cancelling debt that they they voluntarily incurred?? I said nothing about the $1,200 disbursements in this thread, by the way. Us being a mixed system means we should cancel debt? Reward people for making terrible financial decision? Where does it stop? It's not equitable.

Bob, equitability has nothing to do with it, and you're mixing two different issues.

The  unemployment is relief. People can't work because of restrictions placed by the state (not that a lot of those jobs would be around right now regardless of state action). 

Debt forgiveness and $1,200 dollars is stimulus. It's making sure that people have money to put in to the economy to drive consumer spending, the biggest economic engine of this country. And no, there is zero moral difference between the two, unless you consider government's fiscal responsibility to be moral, in which case they're still probably equal. Hell, if you want stimulus and consider it to be moral for the government to be most effective with dollars spent, it makes more sense to throw money at poorer people. They spend almost all their money! Spending money is what drives the economy! What would you do with 300 bucks a month Bob, throw it in a money market account?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Just now, Bob said:

Normalize for population and they're very similar. Even if we end up with 200k deaths they will be comparable. btw at this point I believe we'll end up around 200k deaths (will they be counted correctly? Who knows?).

Not really. This pandemic isn't done, and our treatment technology is enormously better. Furthermore, flus don't give 3-5 people permanent cardivascular damage for every one they kill, unlike COVID-19.

Just now, Bob said:

Ain't no vaccine coming. This is a coronavirus. How many successful vaccines have been created against coronaviruses? And the time frame for a safe vaccine is too long. COVID-19 will burn itself out way before a safe, legitimate virus is out to the public. Book it. The sooner everyone gets it the better. As I've been saying for months.

Why would we have created a vaccine against the coronavirus family? they were a head cold, basically, until this novel corona virus with far more serious effects. We're slamming money and effort at developing a vaccine, whose timeline is... spring. Furthermore, our best guess is that immunity lasts 3-6 months. That is more or less fine for vaccines; get everyone to get it, and we're all immune ish at the same time. It is not fine for "herd immunity" as the virus can re-infect people. As people have been saying for months.

Just now, Bob said:

I meant the government-literally-shuttering-people's-places-of-work type of economic restriction. Maybe you missed that. I'm not a libertarian anarchist, I understand that certain laws and restrictions are necessary for a good society. I also understand that the government can go too far!

yeah, the government shutters drug dealers and prostitutes too. Where's your outrage been?

Just now, Bob said:

Debt forgiveness and stimulus are fundamentally different.

No, they aren't. They're identical.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Well, it looks like Pelosi took my advice.  It is going to be entertaining seeing Trump do "executive orders" to spend the type of money that is needed to keep the economy afloat.  At the end of the day the Democrats offered him everything he needed to keep the economy afloat but he couldn't take "yes" for an answer.  All of the sudden when it comes to keeping the working people employed the Conjobs are really worried about the debt.  

I am guessing the American people will know pretty damn quickly that the Trump "executive order" stimulus is as fake as a degree from Trump U.   It will be fun seeing Susan Collins be "concerned" but unable to get anything across the finish line.  

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5 minutes ago, retrofade said:

This is totally going to end well.

Nice, this guy has a real political instinct.  Run on austerity in the middle of a depression.  "Elections have consequences" so voters should have to deal with this buffoon and the the ineffective ones in Congress.  Try do blame the Democrats for the Unemployement and Stimulus Checks even though they have a bill sitting there waiting to be passed by the grim reaper and the stable genius.  Go off on vacation and go golfing!  We are so excited to see the "Trump Stimulus!"

Pelosi shouldn't give an inch and watch Trump fold lie he always does.

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12 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Trump is going to announce that he doesn't want to spend money to keep people from losing their homes AT HIS GOLF CLUB with a bunch of RICH GOLF DOUCHEBAGS.  What a marketing genius!

You've got to be shitting me.

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2 minutes ago, retrofade said:

He's saying he's going to use executive orders to extend UI benefits as well as to cut the payroll tax through the end of the year. 

Nice!  Pelosi and Schumer just need to sit back and watch those checks go out!  Make sure those checks don't bounce Donald!

Anticipation Popcorn GIF

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9 minutes ago, retrofade said:

He's saying he's going to use executive orders to extend UI benefits as well as to cut the payroll tax through the end of the year. 

He doesn’t have that power.  He can defer tax collections on payroll tax but it’s just a deferral.  You’re still going to owe that tax.  

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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18 minutes ago, mugtang said:

He doesn’t have that power.  He can defer tax collections on payroll tax but it’s just a deferral.  You’re still going to owe that tax.  

Yep.

 

People, not a fan.

 

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31 minutes ago, azgreg said:

 

In reality, insurance companies get away with denials for pre-existing conditions at least temporarily  by not allowing you to buy insurance until the open enrollment period (usually a month) or putting in waivers for a specific condition. Obamacare plans as well. Medicaid is by far the most lenient plan if you qualify. I can get things authorized on a Medicaid plan that I couldn’t on a commercial plan even administered by the same insurance company.

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