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Eliminate SAT and ACT Requirements?

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1 hour ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Nah, they should just get rid of these tests as requirements for all students.

nonsense.  I don't trust university administrators to be unbiased.  They are uniformly one of the more arrogant, biased and tyrannical cohorts in the history of the Republic.

The university is an ACADEMIC institution.  There must be ACADEMIC standards for admission to ensure society is wasting valuable resources on individuals will little prospect of success.  University administrations  do not have a crystal ball. They have no special powers whatsoever.;  There is no substitute for an objective threshold for entrance.  In fact the only reason we're having this discussion is that "not enough" ( a subjective critique) of the people with the melanin they prefer cannot qualify and "too many" Asians and Caucasians do.

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On 7/18/2020 at 2:11 PM, Jack Bauer said:

Yup. I hate the one and done rule

Agreed. The rule should be changed. If a kid has the ability to go pro let him go. The G league is a good stepping stone for kids that have no interest in school. A good side effect is the elites wont be able to load up on the five star kids. It provides a lot greater parity in college basketball. The downside is dilution of the level of play. I’m on the parity wagon myself. 

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3 hours ago, SDSUfan said:

nonsense.  I don't trust university administrators to be unbiased.  They are uniformly one of the more arrogant, biased and tyrannical cohorts in the history of the Republic.

The university is an ACADEMIC institution.  There must be ACADEMIC standards for admission to ensure society is wasting valuable resources on individuals will little prospect of success.  University administrations  do not have a crystal ball. They have no special powers whatsoever.;  There is no substitute for an objective threshold for entrance.  In fact the only reason we're having this discussion is that "not enough" ( a subjective critique) of the people with the melanin they prefer cannot qualify and "too many" Asians and Caucasians do.

So you want a biased test to be used because you don’t trust administrators to be unbiased? That makes no sense. Also, an applicant’s ACADEMIC track record can be used to determine if they can meet the university’s ACADEMIC standards. Some aptitude test administered by a third party has fck all to do with a student’s ACADEMIC achievement.

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1 hour ago, SalinasSpartan said:

So you want a biased test to be used because you don’t trust administrators to be unbiased? That makes no sense. Also, an applicant’s ACADEMIC track record can be used to determine if they can meet the university’s ACADEMIC standards. Some aptitude test administered by a third party has fck all to do with a student’s ACADEMIC achievement.

There's zero proof that tests are "biased" other than the say so of those that don't like the outcome. If they're so culturally biased how is it that so many 1st generation Asian immigrants do so well on it?  "Biased test" is a canard.  Only people can be biased.

As to academic record; that is already factored. 

Again, the goal of all of this is to achieve some sort of "fair" distribution as determined by those in power. The formula they will use to make these decisions by necessity will be ever changing, often driven the strongest personality in the room and as opaque as they can possibly make it. 

And AGAIN, this is the definition of tyranny

And FURTHER;  
I'll agree with the basketball coaches when they select their basketball team by lottery or by who tries really really hard as long as the end result closely mirrors  the population  of the community the university serves. Here in SD that would mean that the basketball team have far more whites Hispanics and Asians.  Dutcher can have 1 black guy.

ALSO  how many other certifications are you willing to sacrifice at the diversity alter?

CPA?

Bar?

PE?

ABS?

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17 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

There's zero proof that tests are "biased" other than the say so of those that don't like the outcome. If they're so culturally biased how is it that so many 1st generation Asian immigrants do so well on it?  "Biased test" is a canard.  Only people can be biased.

As to academic record; that is already factored. 

Again, the goal of all of this is to achieve some sort of "fair" distribution as determined by those in power. The formula they will use to make these decisions by necessity will be ever changing, often driven the strongest personality in the room and as opaque as they can possibly make it. 

And AGAIN, this is the definition of tyranny

And FURTHER;  
I'll agree with the basketball coaches when they select their basketball team by lottery or by who tries really really hard as long as the end result closely mirrors  the population  of the community the university serves. Here in SD that would mean that the basketball team have far more whites Hispanics and Asians.  Dutcher can have 1 black guy.

ALSO  how many other certifications are you willing to sacrifice at the diversity alter?

CPA?

Bar?

PE?

ABS?

The SAT and ACT are not “certifications”, they are biased aptitude tests. Shitty comparison. 

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7 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

The SAT and ACT are not “certifications”, they are biased aptitude tests. Shitty comparison. 

nonsense....AGAIN.

They serve the exact same purpose;  an objective assessment of whether or not someone is qualified to do the work.

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2 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

nonsense....AGAIN.

The serve the exact purpose;  an assessment of whether or not someone is qualified to do the work.

And yet the UC system is phasing out the use both of these and guess what? It will still collectively be the best system of public universities in the country. 

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8 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

And yet the UC system is phasing out the use both of these and guess what? It will still collectively be the best system of public universities in the country. 

for now.

They've been trying to get around Bakke for nearly a 1/2 century

This will not end well

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13 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

And yet the UC system is phasing out the use both of these and guess what? It will still collectively be the best system of public universities in the country. 

I'm confused why you are so set on not letting a university use SAT/ACT.  Those are tests that indicate a certain aptitude.  If a university wants to use those, fine.  If they don't, that's also their business.  It's up to the school.  There's no ridiculous federal mandate on entrance requirements anywhere.

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2 hours ago, Headbutt said:

I'm confused why you are so set on not letting a university use SAT/ACT.  Those are tests that indicate a certain aptitude.  If a university wants to use those, fine.  If they don't, that's also their business.  It's up to the school.  There's no ridiculous federal mandate on entrance requirements anywhere.

Because they are biased and inherently favor wealthier students whose parents can afford SAT/ACT prep courses. 

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35 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Because they are biased and inherently favor wealthier students whose parents can afford SAT/ACT prep courses. 

OK.  I'll take your word for it.  That still doesn't explain why any individual university can't use them if they want to.  If they're that unreliable, smart universities won't.  Others may see it different.  Eliminating them is as dumb as mandating them.

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3 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

The SAT and ACT are not “certifications”, they are biased aptitude tests. Shitty comparison. 

Not sure why so much offense is taken to testing.  Mcat tests should be removed as well?  Many academic scholarships are obtained through high testing scores.  Those kids deserve that money and it enables them to attend schools not financially viable otherwise.  Not all 4.0 's in high school are the same.  This much is obvious. 

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1 hour ago, slappy said:

Not sure why so much offense is taken to testing.  Mcat tests should be removed as well?  Many academic scholarships are obtained through high testing scores.  Those kids deserve that money and it enables them to attend schools not financially viable otherwise.  Not all 4.0 's in high school are the same.  This much is obvious. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2019/12/11/lawsuit-claims-sat-and-act-are-biased-heres-what-research-says/amp/

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51 minutes ago, slappy said:

Not sure what the point is.  Anyone can bring a law suit.  Intelligent kids will do good on any test when taken with peers.  Pretty hard to get around that fact.  Same goes for athletes. 

I don’t know if this makes sense or not. But the article references research. Not sure if you had time to read. 

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2 hours ago, slappy said:

Not sure why so much offense is taken to testing.  Mcat tests should be removed as well?  Many academic scholarships are obtained through high testing scores.  Those kids deserve that money and it enables them to attend schools not financially viable otherwise.  Not all 4.0 's in high school are the same.  This much is obvious. 

Well considering I support tuition free public universities, this scholarship argument does nothing for me.

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3 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Because they are biased and inherently favor wealthier students whose parents can afford SAT/ACT prep courses. 

I agree but it doesn't mean the tests don't have value as an admissions tool. 

It just depends upon how info is used.

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1 hour ago, NevadaFan said:

Tried and true lefty tactic:

1. Get some friendly non-profit organization to sue you over something you want to do but can't, legally or politically., like eliminate the SAT and allow race based college admissions.

2. Throw the suit and settle, giving the plaintiff everything it (and you) wants.

3. Flip the bird to the citizens and tell them to make you a sammich, peons.

 

The "research" is nothing more than a compendium of slanted and marginal statistics that, BTW, indicate the problem isn't race, or the test, but rather the greedy, incompetent teachers unions and the corrupt local governments that enable them, keeping poor kids trapped in their dysfunctional system.

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8 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

So you want a biased test to be used because you don’t trust administrators to be unbiased? That makes no sense. Also, an applicant’s ACADEMIC track record can be used to determine if they can meet the university’s ACADEMIC standards. Some aptitude test administered by a third party has fck all to do with a student’s ACADEMIC achievement.

Academic achievement in high school these days is almost a meaningless evaluation standard for comparison purposes since almost half of the kids have an A average. The SAT and EIT allow admissions to sort out the true achievers from the pretenders. 

https://qz.com/1032183/no-wonder-young-americans-feel-so-important-when-half-of-them-finish-high-school-as-a-students/

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