Guest #1Stunner Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 22 minutes ago, AztecSU said: You don't challenge, you make up straw men and false opposing arguments. It's petty and dumb considering majority here actually try to communicate honestly. You seem to have more invested in being right than learning from a collective conversation. I REPEAT. If people are living in a crime filled, poverty ghetto, a strong message to them should be that (1) moving out is feasible, and (2) moving away is a great option to ensure their rapid safety and possibility to get ahead in life. It. Can. Be. Done. (don't listen to the naysayers, is my message). This goes for Black, White, Polynesian, Latino, Asian, anyone. It is their CHOICE. This is a proven formula (see the Irish, Indians (escaping the caste system), Italians, Slavs, Polynesians, Latinos, etc, etc etc etc) If you find that message "dishonest", a "straw man" and a "false opposing argument", then I simply disagree with you. But you have been unable to articulate why this is impossible for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkula Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 30 minutes ago, #1Stunner said: I REPEAT. If people are living in a crime filled, poverty ghetto, a strong message to them should be that (1) moving out is feasible, and (2) moving away is a great option to ensure their rapid safety and possibility to get ahead in life. It. Can. Be. Done. (don't listen to the naysayers, is my message). This goes for Black, White, Polynesian, Latino, Asian, anyone. It is their CHOICE. This is a proven formula (see the Irish, Indians (escaping the caste system), Italians, Slavs, Polynesians, Latinos, etc, etc etc etc) If you find that message "dishonest", a "straw man" and a "false opposing argument", then I simply disagree with you. But you have been unable to articulate why this is impossible for anyone. This is a very inspirational message for the caravans from central America. Don't listen to the naysayers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easybronc Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 17 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: Ok, so let us assume welfare has played a roll in the problem. In your bootstraps model, who watches the kids? How does the now single mother at work pay for child care? What about the lack of jobs in certain inner cities? What about the dad doing years in prison because he bought some pot? Don't do the crime if you can not do the crime amirite? Let's ignore the reasons why politicians decided a social safety net was necessary, just bootstrap up, right? It looks like this has been answered. You move your ass to where the jobs are. I went to school in podunk Idaho and when everyone graduates HS they move away. Why? Because there isn't enough work in my hometown. But people who depend on the govt for everything stay where they are and just sit around like baby birds with their mouths open ... Feed me! Feed me! Pathetic. Then the kids grow up with zero confidence that they can achieve anything. They believe they are owed by others and they go and commit crimes. End welfare now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkula Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Just now, easybronc said: It looks like this has been answered. You move your ass to where the jobs are. I went to school in podunk Idaho and when everyone graduates HS they move away. Why? Because there isn't enough work in my hometown. But people who depend on the govt for everything just sit around like baby birds with their mouths open ... Feed me! Feed me! Pathetic. Then the kids grow up with zero confidence that they can achieve anything. They believe they are owed by others and they go and commit crimes. End welfare now. We have gone for 5,000 years without welfare and charity. Why continue with failure? Let them eat cake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easybronc Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Akkula said: We have gone for 5,000 years without welfare and charity. Why continue with failure? Let them eat cake! We went 5,000 years without charity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrofade Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, #1Stunner said: I'm sorry that you are apparently not used to having someone challenge your opinions, but I have said nothing untrue.. Just because you disagree with my views, doesn't mean it is a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkula Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, easybronc said: We went 5,000 years without charity? With only charity. That didn't work very well. When was there a great success charity only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, #1Stunner said: Bad assumption. This is about sharing a message that it is an OPTION. (that message was roundly attacked today, and told it is impossible, and NOT AN OPTION, and that people shouldn't even try, or cannot figure out how to try). We are all human beings. I think many people (Blacks / Whites / Latinos / Asians / Whomever) aren't going to act on something they hadn't considered, or that they constantly hear is not possible. OF course they won't. Time to call bullshit on the notion that it isn't an OPTION for them... That said.... Why do you think Latinos are basically moving to the US with only the shirts on their backs (no job, no house, nothing)? Because, they have repeatedly heard the message that immigrating to the US is feasible, and beneficial. Why do you think so many Polynesians immigrate from Samoa and Tonga to Las Vegas or Dallas? Or even Hawaiians move from Hawaii to Las Vegas (the 9th Island). Because thy have repeatedly heard the message that it is feasible, and beneficial. If anything, poor Blacks (you brought them up, but I'll include poor anyone), should also repeatedly be told the message that MOVING is feasible, and an valid option (could be beneficial, but its always a risk). It's odd that people shout down that message to inner-city humans (I've heard today from people on here that they aren't smart enough, are too poor, don't have the resources, etc---which is insulting to them). Also, moving to a new State is not necessarily painless, and you might find yourself a new ethnic minority, but there are a lot of benefits to escaping crime and poverty. People have had to do this (and be apart from family and their culture) for a long, long time---it's their choice. So spare me the "Racist" chickenshit talk. Simply telling people MOVING is an FEASIBLE OPTION (maybe a message they don't normally hear, as evidenced by this board) is not chickenshit. We have so many people on this board that have lived in different places, I'm surprised they think it is not good for other people. For the record, I do not believe you are racist or that what you are saying is untrue. It just does not tell the whole truth and does not address the question in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Aztec Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 43 minutes ago, easybronc said: End welfare now. Would hurt the rural more than it will hurt the city. Probably not a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkula Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said: Would hurt the rural more than it will hurt the city. Probably not a great idea. Lotta farmers may have to move away to the ghetto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanforHeisman Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Poverty, overcrowding, lack of resources, and a million other things that won’t be fixed in our lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalinasSpartan Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 11 hours ago, sactowndog said: Not that I agree with all their positions but is it possible they could be right that the breakdown of the family is part of the problem? And that government programs the don’t encourage/support families to stay together should be remade so they do? Yea, I agree that a breakdown of the family is big part of the problem. But in my experience when people emphasize this as “the way” it is only an argument to justify austerity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #1Stunner Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 41 minutes ago, Akkula said: Lotta farmers may have to move away to the ghetto. Your decision to immigrate to a new Country, and escape what you determined to be economic oppression and an inferior Country, is a good example. You are brave!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev McQuervo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 19 hours ago, East Coast Aztec said: You may be right, too. It is just my opinion. I would suggest other Veterans may be able to weigh in as they may have a different experience to create an opposing opinon to mine. @sean327 @Warbow @renoskier @afacademydad @ltcpilot @Rev McQuervo and I am sure there are more, but their names slip me. This action I agree, would help to counter the current moral/social decay. I like the idea yet I was a volunteer. Millitary service teaches you to understand fully the benefit of "Teaming." I have always worked for Fortune 500 organizations leading sales teams- rare to find anyone whom really understands that concept unless they were ex military. Remember when posting to this thread (actually a great thread and some very solid thoughts inclusive) we live in the most progressive society in the world. Change and adjustments are continually necessary as is a topic I believe is completely missed here: ACCOUNTABILITY for ones actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BYUcougfan Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 13 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: For the record, I do not believe you are racist or that what you are saying is untrue. It just does not tell the whole truth and does not address the question in the OP. A couple have thrown out the last one as a way to avoid addressing it directly. It is the MWC Board. If there is one thing we do here, it is stay 100% on topic with the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkula Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Rev McQuervo said: This action I agree, would help to counter the current moral/social decay. I like the idea yet I was a volunteer. Millitary service teaches you to understand fully the benefit of "Teaming." I have always worked for Fortune 500 organizations leading sales teams- rare to find anyone whom really understands that concept unless they were ex military. Remember when posting to this thread (actually a great thread and some very solid thoughts inclusive) we live in the most progressive society in the world. Change and adjustments are continually necessary as is a topic I believe is completely missed here: ACCOUNTABILITY for ones actions. Many veterans cant get jobs and dont have the civilian skills needed after leaving the military. Shoving more people through the military industrial complex doesnt seem like a resolution of inner city poverty. Making military service the only way to go to college for a lot of kids seems like exactly the wrong approach. Military service works great if you are going to be a foreman of a factory but I am not sure it translates to a world already struggling for blue collar jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyoguns Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 14 hours ago, Akkula said: This is a very inspirational message for the caravans from central America. Don't listen to the naysayers! Jesus Christ speaking of straw man arguments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecSU Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 16 hours ago, #1Stunner said: I REPEAT. If people are living in a crime filled, poverty ghetto, a strong message to them should be that (1) moving out is feasible, and (2) moving away is a great option to ensure their rapid safety and possibility to get ahead in life. It. Can. Be. Done. (don't listen to the naysayers, is my message). This goes for Black, White, Polynesian, Latino, Asian, anyone. It is their CHOICE. This is a proven formula (see the Irish, Indians (escaping the caste system), Italians, Slavs, Polynesians, Latinos, etc, etc etc etc) If you find that message "dishonest", a "straw man" and a "false opposing argument", then I simply disagree with you. But you have been unable to articulate why this is impossible for anyone. Irish, Italians, Slavs, and Polynesians were denied home loans backed by the federal government until the 1990's and beyond? No ones saying its not possible or not to do it. Some make it out everyday, but the reality on the ground means a majority don't. You're just too concerned with winning an argument to know or accept it despite mountains of evidence and research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecSU Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 90% of welfare is medicaid or Children Assistance programs. Go ahead and cut the medical care for old people and kids, ya'll are geniuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #1Stunner Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 40 minutes ago, AztecSU said: Irish, Italians, Slavs, and Polynesians were denied home loans backed by the federal government until the 1990's and beyond? No ones saying its not possible or not to do it. Some make it out everyone day, but the reality on the ground means a majority don't. You're just too concerned with winning an argument to know or accept it despite mountains of evidence and research. It's ironic that you accuse me of being "too concerned about winning an argument", when you are the one who refuses to admit that simply moving to a new State or Location (i.e. get out of the Ghetto) can rapidly improve a person's lot in life. It's a proven formula that tons of oppressed poor people have followed (look at Indian immigrants escaping the caste system). I don't know why "moving" away from a bad, oppressed, crime area, or systemically racist area is an offensive concept to you... You seem so desperate to "win the argument", you even tried to make ridiculous excuses that moving was practically impossible for poor people, and they were bound to a Ghetto. Some on here suggested that poor people couldn't figure out how to relocate to a new State...(dumb) Now..., You appear confused. To be clear, I have said nothing against the FACTS that black people have been discriminated against, with things like being denied loans (I think the "Ghetto" was redlined as too risky, like you say). I agree completely that it was unjust back in the 90s. And my advice CURRENTLY, is if someone finds themself in an oppressive Ghetto (with poverty and crime, and the deck stacked against them), the message is that moving IS an option. Some like you argue that they can't leave the ghetto, and that only rich people are able to move to better locations. I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...