Ok, so let's have a meaningful talk about inner city violence.

[AztecSU]

Just now, NVGiant said:

When I was younger, I always had to pay a deposit up front to every apartment I moved to. When I got a little older and with more credit, I no longer had to pay a deposit. And if they're poor, it is all but guaranteed they have a bad credit score, either because they are in debt or because they don't have enough credit history.

He's either much older than the average poster or he's not being completely forthright. I asked two very simple questions and he couldn't answer and got defensive. 

[BSUTOP25]

Just now, NVGiant said:

When I was younger, I always had to pay a deposit up front to every apartment I moved to. When I got a little older and with more credit, I no longer had to pay a deposit. And if they're poor, it is all but guaranteed they have a bad credit score, either because they are in debt or because they don't have enough credit history.

Even with very good credit, most rentals still require a security deposit up front. 

[AztecSU]

3 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

When I was younger, I always had to pay a deposit up front to every apartment I moved to. When I got a little older and with more credit, I no longer had to pay a deposit. And if they're poor, it is all but guaranteed they have a bad credit score, either because they are in debt or because they don't have enough credit history.

Nowadays you always pay a deposit unless you have a special situation or perhaps personally know the owner. And credit checks are a standard part of the process. So to move you have to have 2 months rent saved, plus moving costs, "Good Enough" credit, plus a job lined up where you are going unless you are getting help from someone...

[NVGiant]

 

Just now, BSUTOP25 said:

Even with very good credit, most rentals still require a security deposit up front. 

Definitely. I just meant utilities.

[NVGiant]

Just now, AztecSU said:

Nowadays you always pay a deposit unless you have a special situation or perhaps personally know the owner. And credit checks are a standard part of the process. So to move you have to have 2 months rent saved, plus moving costs, plus a job lined up where you are going unless you are getting help from someone...

Yeah. I meant a deposit to hook up utilities. I should've been clearer.

[retrofade]

5 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

I don’t think anyone thinks relocation is the only solution. It was just stated as one possible solution and no one is discounting it is difficult. 

Regardless, like you say the solution is very complex. This issue has been decades if not centuries in forming and hopefully wont take as long to resolve. Unfortunately, it appears we’ve gone backwards in the last fifty years

Stunner is acting as though relocation is and should be the main solution, and diverting all points made to the contrary with childish ad hominems. 

[AztecSU]

1 minute ago, NVGiant said:

Yeah. I meant a deposit to hook up utilities. I should've been clearer.

Yes, usually Gas & Electric utilities require a smallish deposit as well. 

[East Coast Aztec]

2 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

And I moved from Vallejo to get out of a ghetto town.  The best thing I ever did.  It completely changed my perspective.  All of these MWC boarders making it seem as if moving is an insurmountable obstacle for poor people or people in/from the ghetto.  Oh you poor things...you can't manage a thing without my figuring it out for you or handing you money.  It makes me wonder if they see people or pets when they look at them?  They have the same human ingenuity we all have.  If they want to make it happen...they can.  Help them imagine a different life.

If I lived there, I would want to keep my kids as far away from this type of thinking as I possibly could.  A constant message of defeat.

My family moved from a poor neighborhood.  They had HS diplomas and were pretty stable in their jobs and had a car, so we got out.  A lot of friends were not so fortunate, for any number of reasons.  So no, I am not "making it seem as if moving is an insurmountable obstacle for poor people or people in/from the ghetto".  I am saying that not everyone will be able to do so, because of a lack of access to funds, and zero connections elsewhere.  I have seen people bust their tails to get out, only to see them back because they did not have the connections in their new place, and it depleted everything they had.  That is why that it isn't just a magic fix, or something that everyone in the inner city can just do.  You are falsely equivocating people discussing difficulty with people saying it can never be done, and that is not what is being said.

[Wyoguns]

51 minutes ago, youngredbullfan said:

If not being able to stuff your round son's jowl with yet another Cheesecake Factory dessert while black kids have food insecurity is socialism, so be it. 

A swing and a miss!  I volunteer my time several times a year to a food bank in my town...I also donate money several times a year.  I could care less if that time and money is used on a white kid, a black kid, a Hispanic kid etc.  my sons also donate time a couple of times a year at the same food bank.  So keeping swinging away slugger!

[retrofade]

2 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

 

Definitely. I just meant utilities.

One of the municipalities I worked with had a $270 fee to start up electric/water/sewer. They didn't provide gas, so that would be an additional charge from that utility provider. Another one had charges of $200, while another one that has a lot of poverty was charging upwards of $500 for electric/water/sewer service startup if you didn't have perfect credit. A lot of providers also have clauses where if you have a missed payment at all in the first year, then your deposit gets held for another year... and if you miss another one, then they get to keep it. 

[retrofade]

10 minutes ago, Wyoguns said:

A swing and a miss!  I volunteer my time several times a year to a food bank in my town...I also donate money several times a year.  I could care less if that time and money is used on a white kid, a black kid, a Hispanic kid etc.  my sons also donate time a couple of times a year at the same food bank.  So keeping swinging away slugger!

That's great that you volunteer time and donate money... but it doesn't address the point that we're talking about here. 

[East Coast Aztec]

Just now, retrofade said:

One of the municipalities I worked with had a $270 fee to start up electric/water/sewer. They didn't provide gas, so that would be an additional charge from that utility provider. Another one had charges of $200, while another one that has a lot of poverty was charging upwards of $500 for electric/water/sewer service startup if you didn't have perfect credit. A lot of providers also have clauses where if you have a missed payment at all in the first year, then your deposit gets held for another year... and if you miss another one, then they get to keep it. 

That sounds like some BS.  Was it New Orleans Sewer and Water Board?  

[NVGiant]

26 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

And I moved from Vallejo to get out of a ghetto town.  The best thing I ever did.  It completely changed my perspective.  All of these MWC boarders making it seem as if moving is an insurmountable obstacle for poor people or people in/from the ghetto.  Oh you poor things...you can't manage a thing without my figuring it out for you or handing you money.  It makes me wonder if they see people or pets when they look at them?  They have the same human ingenuity we all have.  If they want to make it happen...they can.  Help them imagine a different life.

If I lived there, I would want to keep my kids as far away from this type of thinking as I possibly could.  A constant message of defeat.

It really is interesting that you guys take such offense to those of us who choose to reach for a deeper understanding of poverty, its causes, and to find solutions beyond those that can fit on a bumper sticker. I'd think with all that experience in poverty that you guys say you have, you would have seen firsthand the barriers some have to clear and attempt to understand some of the root causes of those barriers. I like to ask myself why my story is different than some of my childhood friends. Why was my family able to move up and out, while others did not. That sort of curiosity is healthy. I find it strange that you don't ask yourself those same questions.

[retrofade]

4 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

That sounds like some BS.  Was it New Orleans Sewer and Water Board?  

Haha! No, the one that was $500 is just a small town out in the middle of North Carolina, just like the $270 one that charges $270. I've seen those types of deposits in billing setups for municipal and co-op utilities all over the country though. It's especially prevalent with municipal services, because like I mentioned, their cost recovery rates and mechanisms aren't generally great. Plus their ability to absorb those hits as non-profit entities is far more limited than an IOU utility like Duke, SCE, or any of the other huge utility providers. 

[Wyoguns]

7 minutes ago, retrofade said:

That's great that you volunteer time and donate money... it doesn't address the point that we're talking about here. 

Sure it does...  ol slugger was basically making reference to my family and that it was all that matters.  In some ways yes but Helping others less fortunate is very important to me.  I may not make a difference in the big picture but helping my community is important.

[NVGiant]

12 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

My family moved from a poor neighborhood.  They had HS diplomas and were pretty stable in their jobs and had a car, so we got out.  A lot of friends were not so fortunate, for any number of reasons.  So no, I am not "making it seem as if moving is an insurmountable obstacle for poor people or people in/from the ghetto".  I am saying that not everyone will be able to do so, because of a lack of access to funds, and zero connections elsewhere.  I have seen people bust their tails to get out, only to see them back because they did not have the connections in their new place, and it depleted everything they had.  That is why that it isn't just a magic fix, or something that everyone in the inner city can just do.  You are falsely equivocating people discussing difficulty with people saying it can never be done, and that is not what is being said.

All of this. Literally every single word, perfectly captures what we are discussing.

[retrofade]

2 minutes ago, Wyoguns said:

Sure it does...  ol slugger was basically making reference to my family and that it was all that matters.  In some ways yes but Helping others less fortunate is very important to me.  I may not make a difference in the big picture but helping my community is important.

To go back to your baseball analogy, your understanding of his point was a giant swing and a miss. Go back and read through it, and then look at the context, and get back to us. 

[Wyoguns]

I guess we’ll agree to disagree and that is ok

[BYUcougfan]

28 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

My family moved from a poor neighborhood.  They had HS diplomas and were pretty stable in their jobs and had a car, so we got out.  A lot of friends were not so fortunate, for any number of reasons.  So no, I am not "making it seem as if moving is an insurmountable obstacle for poor people or people in/from the ghetto".  I am saying that not everyone will be able to do so, because of a lack of access to funds, and zero connections elsewhere.  I have seen people bust their tails to get out, only to see them back because they did not have the connections in their new place, and it depleted everything they had.  That is why that it isn't just a magic fix, or something that everyone in the inner city can just do.  You are falsely equivocating people discussing difficulty with people saying it can never be done, and that is not what is being said.

I am not arguing that it is a magic fix.  But it can be a fix for some.  There is poster after poster making it seem like moving is impossible.  It is not.  It is the usual push back you get any time you suggest that improving the lot of the poor might involve the poor putting in some work.  The only answers can be racism and money.  Anything approaching personal accountability gets this type of reaction.  A mountain of reasons why it is not possible.  Racism and money can be answers...just not the only answers.  Otherwise we would see far better outcomes D.C, Atlanta, etc.

[retrofade]

3 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

I am not arguing that it is a magic fix.  But it can be a fix for some.  There is poster after poster making it seem like moving is impossible.  It is not.  It is the usual push back you get any time you suggest that improving the lot of the poor might involve the poor putting in some work.  The only answers can be racism and money.  Anything approaching personal accountability gets this type of reaction.  A mountain of reasons why it is not possible.  Racism and money can be answers...just not the only answers.  Otherwise we would see far better outcomes D.C, Atlanta, etc.

So poor minorities in inner cities don't move out because they won't work hard and don't have personal accountability.

Got it.