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halfmanhalfbronco

Ok, so let's have a meaningful talk about inner city violence.

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Guest #1Stunner
12 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

He is using the UKRAINE as the bases of his argument for "just move".  Here. In the US.  

 

Yes, I have used the URKAINE as the ENTIRE basis of my argument.  (Actually, as just ONE example).

Willful misreading?

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This can be summed up as ideology.  Those who are derisively called "Liberals" care deeply about making sure there is a level playing field, at least for children.  They do not believe in equal outcomes but giving people the right conditions for success.  There is a realization that the ways things were done in the past did not set up these conditions.  

Trumpists and Tea Party conservatism basically takes the ideology of +++++ you...I got mine...life isn't fair so go +++++ yourself if you want to ask me to do anything about YOUR personal problem.  Politics is about winning and if you aren't cheating you aren't trying.  Power is everything and you are a sucker if you give it up.

It is amazing weak ass liberals ever win any elections.  

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13 minutes ago, happycamper said:

dude he's arguing that anyone can move all of the time for free. Just because he's arguing what he thinks doesn't mean he's actually here to have a discussion. He's here to derail first, second, third, and always. 

He has a certain style.  Akkula is basically doing the same thing on this thread but you are good with it.

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7 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

$5,000 seems about right for a family move out of state.  Especially if it includes the packing and supplies, the rental for moving, the cleanup of the old place, the first and last months rent, or the closing costs on a home (which poor people will likely not be doing), starting utility services, and small items for the new place.  I moved from one house to another blocks away and I still needed about $3,000 because of all the aforementioned.  If inner city folks had that available, they probably wouldn't be on welfare or they wouldn't live in a slum.  They likely don't have the ability to get a moving loan from a bank.  So the other option is payday lending, which is one major factor in debt in the inner city family.

It cost us about 7k. That includes about 20 hours of free labor from my "used to be a professional mover" cousin and about 2k in savings from Uhaul because the only uhauls available after I had reserved for a month were in Riverton.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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2 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

Fair enough as I respect your opinion.  And certainly if you decided to go to a mandatory national service like Switzerland your concerns would have to be addressed.

You may be right, too.  It is just my opinion.  I would suggest other Veterans may be able to weigh in as they may have a different experience to create an opposing opinon to mine.

@sean327 @Warbow @renoskier @afacademydad @ltcpilot @Rev McQuervo and I am sure there are more, but their names slip me.

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Guest #1Stunner
11 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

$5,000 seems about right for a family move out of state.  Especially if it includes the packing and supplies, the rental for moving, the cleanup of the old place, the first and last months rent, or the closing costs on a home (which poor people will likely not be doing), starting utility services, and small items for the new place.  I moved from one house to another blocks away and I still needed about $3,000 because of all the aforementioned.  If inner city folks had that available, they probably wouldn't be on welfare or they wouldn't live in a slum.  They likely don't have the ability to get a moving loan from a bank.  So the other option is payday lending, which is one major factor in debt in the inner city family.

I believe you that $5,000 is about right for you to move out of State.

I don't think your expenses / possessions would be comparable to a poor person, though.   Ask me how I know!

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5 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Yes, this is true but it doesn't do anything to solve the problems of the inner city.

Not to mention, those with the ability to "just move" are likely pillars in the community.  Does not sound like a solution to the question posed.

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Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Not to mention, those with the ability to "just move" are likely pillars in the community.  Does not sound like a solution to the question posed.

Ah yes. Another reason some don't leave. Commitment to improve their communities. 

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3 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

I believe you that $5,000 is about right for you to move out of State.

I don't think your expenses / possessions would be comparable to a poor person, though.   Ask me how I know!

For me it was $8,000.  My costs are different, that was true.  I essentially accounted for that.

 

ETA: That was for an out of state move, not the local one.

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Guest #1Stunner

Never would have guessed that so many people would fiercely argue that it is impossible for a poor person to leave the 21st Century plantation (Inner-City Ghetto), and that they should just be resigned to living there their entire lives.  "It can't be done!!!"

 

In real life.... poor people move all the time.

Please folks, get out and meet a poor person in real life some time.   They are as smart as you and me, they just have less money.

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3 minutes ago, happycamper said:

It cost us about 7k. That includes about 20 hours of free labor from my "used to be a professional mover" cousin and about 2k in savings from Uhaul because the only uhauls available after I had reserved for a month were in Riverton.

Well, I can think of a good way.  Just make the people throw all their stuff in the dumpster and they can get on a greyhoud bus with their backpacks.  We will pack em all up and send them to one of those mega churches and they can unload during Sunday mass and declare, "we are here to start our new lives....who is going to give me a place to sleep tonight and a job."   All that costs is a greyhoud bus ticket.  

Watch those church ladies freak out as if Cousin Eddie Griswold just rolled up for Christmas.

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18 minutes ago, retrofade said:

People have done it so therefore it’s possible. Just pull yourself up by those bootstraps, put the family in the car, and head off to tour new life. That’s how it all works, right?

They can even use the Beamer they bought to avoid food deserts! 

 

Seriously though, this whole "they should move" rhetoric is just a way of blaming poor people for their own conditions. It's calling them too stupid and ignorant to just leave. It lacks all intellectual credibility. It's stunning people actually take a sentiment like that at face value. People just don't think through things.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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1 minute ago, #1Stunner said:

Never would have guessed that so many people would fiercely argue that it is impossible for a poor person to leave the 21st Century plantation (Inner-City Ghetto), and that they should just be resigned to living there their entire lives.  "It can't be done!!!"

 

In real life.... poor people move all the time.

Please folks, get out and meet a poor person in real life some time.   They are as smart as you and me, they just have less money.

That isn't what is happening.  You made a flippant statement of "just move" and people are commenting that there are financial constraints to that.  Please, stunner, get out and meet a poor person in real life some time.  They are as smart as you and me, they just have less money.

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58 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Not people in poverty, no.  They very, very, very rarely move because it is expensive.

"Independent" lol.

Yes it can be expensive and, as was mentioned in one of the articles NVGiant posted, one of the main hurdles is caused by our decentralized welfare system. Our welfare system is federally funded but administered by each individual state. On one hand, this makes sense because each state should in theory be more attuned to the needs of the communities within their state.  However, for those who are "in the system", the result is that they can't move between states without facing a significant lapse in financial support. For many, this alone is a deal breaker. 

So, when many conservatives blame generational poverty on our failed welfare system, they aren't necessarily wrong but often site faulty logic, like "fathers would be forced to stay in relationships", to support their beliefs. Our welfare system isn't going away. Let's figure out ways to improve it. It was improved during the Clinton administration, so it is possible. If moving from dangerous or impoverished areas to locations with better economic prospects is considered a worthwhile goal, let's develop a program which encourages such movement.

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8 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

That isn't what is happening.  You made a flippant statement of "just move" and people are commenting that there are financial constraints to that.  Please, stunner, get out and meet a poor person in real life some time.  They are as smart as you and me, they just have less money.

Everyone knows an Escalade and a 3 bedroom house is just waiting for them in the suburbs, if only they would leave. Dummies!

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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I’d bet 85 percent of people in the US don’t have $5k in savings. Period.

This thread is so bizarre to me. I know more than a few families who haven’t relocated because they are tied to the places in which they live.

Hell, I can’t understand why someone would spend $3,500 on an apartment in Cal when they could own a damn mansion in most other states in the west coast for that money. But they do. Thousands, and thousands of them. 

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6 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

He has a certain style.  Akkula is basically doing the same thing on this thread but you are good with it.

I call out akkula all the time. He just doesn't have buddies calling others disingenuous for ignoring him.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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10 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

For me it was $8,000.  My costs are different, that was true.  I essentially accounted for that.

 

ETA: That was for an out of state move, not the local one.

I moved from Pleasanton, CA to Salt Lake City for the cost of the truck.  Something like $800 at the time.  I had no job.  I got one after I arrived.  Not everyone is moving a family and a four bedroom house worth of stuff.

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