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NevadaFan

School choice

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I feel like there should be some give and take here. Private religious schools are now allowed to receive state tax dollars, but the church itself still operates tax free. I'm Catholic and I fully believe that churches should be paying taxes. 

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5 minutes ago, ridgeview2 said:

I feel like there should be some give and take here. Private religious schools are now allowed to receive state tax dollars, but the church itself still operates tax free. I'm Catholic and I fully believe that churches should be paying taxes. 

But all schools are tax free.  This decision is a good decision IMHO.   States should not sponsor religion but they should not oppose it either.   If a school wants to have a religious base of instruction that should be the choice of the school and parents who want to attend it.   If you want to have a school choice subsidy all options should be included.   

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Just now, SJSUMFA2013 said:

It’s time to admit that religions are businesses and start taxing them 

How do you distinguish a church as a non-profit versus a another non-profit?  I would argue a better approach should be money spent on your mission versus overhead.  That would deal with all non-profits who abuse their message.

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Guest #1Stunner
10 minutes ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

It’s time to admit that religions are businesses and start taxing them 

That's a shallow analysis, though.

Tax what?  What is their income?   Money donations from members?  Hasn't that money already been taxed (people pay their income taxes)?

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i am probably missing something, but i don't see why states should subsidize private educations, religious or otherwise.  We must protect the public school system and should do everything possible to strengthen it.  If someone with the means wants something different for their kids, so be it.  Just don't use tax dollars.

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5 minutes ago, alum93 said:

i am probably missing something, but i don't see why states should subsidize private educations, religious or otherwise.  We must protect the public school system and should do everything possible to strengthen it.  If someone with the means wants something different for their kids, so be it.  Just don't use tax dollars.

There is a bit of confusion...  I'm not sure on the limits.

For example, at private universities, students are allowed to obtain federal student loans, grants, etc, to pay for tuition.   This is de facto federal subsidies to pay for private / religious university education.

There is also some confusion about K-12 charter schools, and bout what some charter schools are.  I think most charter schools are in fact public schools, with some autonomy on what they decide to teach. 

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18 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

How do you distinguish a church as a non-profit versus a another non-profit?  I would argue a better approach should be money spent on your mission versus overhead.  That would deal with all non-profits who abuse their message.

Fine. I just remember being a kid and seeing the pastor of my church towing his brand new boat behind his brand new truck and thinking, “the god business must be good.” You’re not a religious leader if you don’t take a vow of poverty; you’re a capitalist and should be taxed as such.

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3 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

There is a bit of confusion...  I'm not sure on the limits.

For example, at private universities, students are allowed to obtain federal student loans, grants, etc, to pay for tuition.   This is de facto federal subsidies to pay for private / religious university education.

There is also some confusion about K-12 charter schools, and bout what some charter schools are.  I think most charter schools are in fact public schools, with some autonomy on what they decide to teach. 

I was referring specifically to the K-12 public schools.  

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10 minutes ago, alum93 said:

i am probably missing something, but i don't see why states should subsidize private educations, religious or otherwise.  We must protect the public school system and should do everything possible to strengthen it.  If someone with the means wants something different for their kids, so be it.  Just don't use tax dollars.

In most cases parents that send their kids to K-12  private schools are also subsidizing the public school system as they are paying property taxes which partially goes to public schools. 

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10 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

That's a shallow analysis, though.

Tax what?  What is their income?   Money donations from members?  Hasn't that money already been taxed (people pay their income taxes)?

Are you saying that they somehow can’t report their income to the government like literally everyone else? Are you saying they aren’t selling a product? 

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Just now, soupslam1 said:

In most cases parents that send their kids to private schools are also subsidizing the public school system as they are paying property taxes which partially goes to public schools. 

That's fine.  You are part of society and you pay taxes.  If you pay taxes, which support the public school system,  and want to send your kid to a private school have at it.  I have no problem with that.  But why use taxes to support private schools?  That's what i am getting out of the ruling.

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10 minutes ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

Fine. I just remember being a kid and seeing the pastor of my church towing his brand new boat behind his brand new truck and thinking, “the god business must be good.” You’re not a religious leader if you don’t take a vow of poverty; you’re a capitalist and should be taxed as such.

 

9 minutes ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

Are you saying that they somehow can’t report their income to the government like literally everyone else? Are you saying they aren’t selling a product? 

 

Maybe we are talking about two separate things.

(1) the Pastor you referenced apparently was an employee of the Church, and was paid a salary.   If that's the case, wouldn't he be paying income taxes on his income?  (I would hope so).

(2) Entities / Churches paying taxes.   Don't they have to have income to tax?  What is their income?  Can you define it? 

You keep suggesting that they earn income....from what?   Are you saying that people giving free money to the Church (donations) is income?   If that's the case, I guess entities like the Salvation Army (getting donations), Red Cross (getting money donations), etc are actually making income?   You'd have to start taxing all non-profits / charities that get money from anyone.   You really want that outcome?

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16 minutes ago, alum93 said:

I was referring specifically to the K-12 public schools.  

I agree, then.  Seems odd that private K-12 would get tax dollars. 

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21 minutes ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

Fine. I just remember being a kid and seeing the pastor of my church towing his brand new boat behind his brand new truck and thinking, “the god business must be good.” You’re not a religious leader if you don’t take a vow of poverty; you’re a capitalist and should be taxed as such.

Remember depending on the church, many of them write books and do other things where they do get personal income that I believe is subject to taxation.   A better question is does the pastor give at least 10% of his income away as Christ commands.  As long as "Church" donations are used for the mission of the church and the pastor isn't skimming off an inordinate amount what he makes is fine.   But that skimming problem is the same for all non-profits.   In fact, many times the non-profit owner will own the building where the non-profit resides and charge above market rents.   This kind of abuse is more my concern.

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57 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Tax what?  What is their income?   Money donations from members?  Hasn't that money already been taxed (people pay their income taxes)?

How does it work with private businesses raising capital? If I invest in your business, does your business get taxed on that money?

Honest question. I don't know the answer. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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5 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

Well, they better fund Native American, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, and Buddhist schools along with Christian/Catholic schools.  Needs to be proportionally equal if they do this.

I'm opening a Madrasa $$$$

I'll hire all the best people!

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17 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

How does it work with private businesses raising capital? If I invest in your business, does your business get taxed on that money?

Honest question. I don't know the answer. 

No it doesn't.   When you pay me back in either interest (bond) or the stock price appreciates (capital Gain), you pay taxes on the amount over what you loaned me.

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