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Confederate Things Torn Down

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First and foremost of all, being from the South in SE Texas a while ago..I was used to tell tale Confederate things lingering.  I never really understood it.  Especially the Confederate battle flag rearing its way with a bunch of drunken, idiot white people.  I was born decades/eons after the KKK days in the South.  Nonetheless this was an ancestry legacy of SE highly rural Texas abutting Louisiana.

I did not grow up this way in big ole Hou. I dig Southern cooking. I dig Southern culture in all of its diverse forms in a modern way. 

What is not modern at all?  The lingering shrines to the Confederate States and their statues.  Texas tore em down, little as they were in Texas by the 1990s way before what is and should be happening now.  Tear them down.  All of them.  Screw Ole Miss, Alabama, parts of North Carolina...get rid of that awful legacy to something that No One should be proud of at all.  Let alone have a lingering statue or shrine embolden to an awful part of America's history. 

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Excellent point.  If you are rightfully ashamed of your history, it's probably best to hide it.

Nothing to be celebrated about the confederacy at all, but trying to eliminate it's role in the evolution of our country is chickenshit.  Between 2% and 2.5% of our entire population died in that war.  So depending on the historian, between 650,000 and 750,000  Americans died in roughly four years in a war that determined the future of slavery and freedom in our country.  You call them "shrines", I call them history.  One of the most important threads in the fabric of our nation.  There is no greater disservice to future generations than to tear them down and act as though they didn't exist.  They say that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  How can you learn from history if you don't face it?

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9 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

Excellent point.  If you are rightfully ashamed of your history, it's probably best to hide it.

Nothing to be celebrated about the confederacy at all, but trying to eliminate it's role in the evolution of our country is chickenshit.  Between 2% and 2.5% of our entire population died in that war.  So depending on the historian, between 650,000 and 750,000  Americans died in roughly four years in a war that determined the future of slavery and freedom in our country.  You call them "shrines", I call them history.  One of the most important threads in the fabric of our nation.  There is no greater disservice to future generations than to tear them down and act as though they didn't exist.  They say that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  How can you learn from history if you don't face it?

We don't need monuments to know the history.  It is not like they are ancient historical pieces like you find scattered across the rest of the world.  They were erected, mostly, in the 20th century.  

We have books, journals just a myriad of historical sources readily available on the Civil War.

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Never understood the celebration in the form of shrines, statues, and public places named after traitors to the Union that is now recognized as the United States.  The confederacy was an insurrection at it's core and was properly put down by a constitutional government.  Any support of confederate culture is counter to everything this country stands for.  

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I am a direct decedent of a famous Confederate general, Black Jack Logan.  He was a brave honorable man and anybody who wants to read a book about him, can find several.  No reason to have his statue anywhere.

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1 minute ago, PokeTransplant said:

Never understood the celebration in the form of shrines, statues, and public places named after traitors to the Union that is now recognized as the United States.  The confederacy was an insurrection at it's core and was properly put down by a constitutional government.  Any support of confederate culture is counter to everything this country stands for.  

I think we see it almost the same.  We both see the confederacy in the same light.  You see monuments as shrines, I see them as markers.  A record of our journey as a country.  I don't buy the argument that we have books and stuff.  That stuff is malleable, it can be rewritten or eliminated altogether.  Monuments create discussion and research.  They tell a story that we can't ever afford to forget.  I don't think we can afford to try and erase physical reminders of the darkest days of this country.  They may be repulsive or at least uncomfortable, but hiding them is disingenuous.  That shit happened.  I think it's wrong to remove history, even ugly history.  That's the thing we need to keep from repeating it.

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4 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

I think we see it almost the same.  We both see the confederacy in the same light.  You see monuments as shrines, I see them as markers.  A record of our journey as a country.  I don't buy the argument that we have books and stuff.  That stuff is malleable, it can be rewritten or eliminated altogether.  Monuments create discussion and research.  They tell a story that we can't ever afford to forget.  I don't think we can afford to try and erase physical reminders of the darkest days of this country.  They may be repulsive or at least uncomfortable, but hiding them is disingenuous.  That shit happened.  I think it's wrong to remove history, even ugly history.  That's the thing we need to keep from repeating it.

Then put them in museums. 

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4 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

I think we see it almost the same.  We both see the confederacy in the same light.  You see monuments as shrines, I see them as markers.  A record of our journey as a country.  I don't buy the argument that we have books and stuff.  That stuff is malleable, it can be rewritten or eliminated altogether.  Monuments create discussion and research.  They tell a story that we can't ever afford to forget.  I don't think we can afford to try and erase physical reminders of the darkest days of this country.  They may be repulsive or at least uncomfortable, but hiding them is disingenuous.  That shit happened.  I think it's wrong to remove history, even ugly history.  That's the thing we need to keep from repeating it.

I don't think hiding them or destroying them is a solution.  But, when they are celebrated as landmarks, that's where I believe the message is getting twisted.  Put them in a museum, make them part of the public discussion, but don't name schools, parks, public buildings after them.

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7 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

I think we see it almost the same.  We both see the confederacy in the same light.  You see monuments as shrines, I see them as markers.  A record of our journey as a country.  I don't buy the argument that we have books and stuff.  That stuff is malleable, it can be rewritten or eliminated altogether.  Monuments create discussion and research.  They tell a story that we can't ever afford to forget.  I don't think we can afford to try and erase physical reminders of the darkest days of this country.  They may be repulsive or at least uncomfortable, but hiding them is disingenuous.  That shit happened.  I think it's wrong to remove history, even ugly history.  That's the thing we need to keep from repeating it.

It does the opposite, it idolize and celebrates them. 

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23 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

Excellent point.  If you are rightfully ashamed of your history, it's probably best to hide it.

Nothing to be celebrated about the confederacy at all, but trying to eliminate it's role in the evolution of our country is chickenshit.  Between 2% and 2.5% of our entire population died in that war.  So depending on the historian, between 650,000 and 750,000  Americans died in roughly four years in a war that determined the future of slavery and freedom in our country.  You call them "shrines", I call them history.  One of the most important threads in the fabric of our nation.  There is no greater disservice to future generations than to tear them down and act as though they didn't exist.  They say that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  How can you learn from history if you don't face it?

Understand it or celebrate it @Headbutt ?

I have no problem with remembering history but would prefer to put the in a place like Momento Park....  put the statues in context both positive and negative.  And it’s not just one way or the other. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_Park

 

 

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14 minutes ago, PokeTransplant said:

Never understood the celebration in the form of shrines, statues, and public places named after traitors to the Union that is now recognized as the United States.  The confederacy was an insurrection at it's core and was properly put down by a constitutional government.  Any support of confederate culture is counter to everything this country stands for.  

Meanwhile, the BB has a thread going where people are trying to claim that the Confederate Battle Flag isn't the flag of traitors, and that saying that the South committed treason is a liberal media lie. 

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4 minutes ago, retrofade said:

Then put them in museums. 

Graveyards are a good location too.

There is only one monument I thought should remain public and that was the monument to the unnamed soldier.  

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1 minute ago, retrofade said:

Meanwhile, the BB has a thread going where people are trying to claim that the Confederate Battle Flag isn't the flag of traitors, and that saying that the South committed treason is a liberal media lie. 

The BB posters are wise to stay away from here.  I invited @Fangdog to post here years ago and he sent me a message about what a liberal cess pool this board is.

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1 minute ago, retrofade said:

Meanwhile, the BB has a thread going where people are trying to claim that the Confederate Battle Flag isn't the flag of traitors, and that saying that the South committed treason is a liberal media lie. 

If they got their own flag, they committed treason, simple as that.

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1 minute ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The BB posters are wise to stay away from here.  I invited @Fangdog to post here years ago and he sent me a message about what a liberal cess pool this board is.

We have some sane ones of various political persuasions, and then we have others who say my political beliefs are further left than Karl Marx. 

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Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Graveyards are a good location too.

There is only one monument I thought should remain public and that was the monument to the unnamed soldier.  

Hmm, put confederate generals monuments in union cemeteries and union Generals monuments in confederate cemetaries. Plaques beneath monuments state ' this/these were the man/men responsible for the graves beneath' et al. 

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13 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

I think we see it almost the same.  We both see the confederacy in the same light.  You see monuments as shrines, I see them as markers.  A record of our journey as a country.  I don't buy the argument that we have books and stuff.  That stuff is malleable, it can be rewritten or eliminated altogether.  Monuments create discussion and research.  They tell a story that we can't ever afford to forget.  I don't think we can afford to try and erase physical reminders of the darkest days of this country.  They may be repulsive or at least uncomfortable, but hiding them is disingenuous.  That shit happened.  I think it's wrong to remove history, even ugly history.  That's the thing we need to keep from repeating it.

What history are the monuments teaching?  Your argument is flawed on it's face.  If the beneficial purpose is that it will get people to talk about and learn the history where will they turn?  To books, journals, letters and papers.  You can not learn from a statue.  But you say those things are malleable and thus can not be trusted to tell the history to future generations.  So, how does that work? 

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7 minutes ago, retrofade said:

Meanwhile, the BB has a thread going where people are trying to claim that the Confederate Battle Flag isn't the flag of traitors, and that saying that the South committed treason is a liberal media lie. 

Are you Fing kidding me?

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10 minutes ago, PokeTransplant said:

I don't think hiding them or destroying them is a solution.  But, when they are celebrated as landmarks, that's where I believe the message is getting twisted.  Put them in a museum, make them part of the public discussion, but don't name schools, parks, public buildings after them.

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. Should we rename all schools, streets, and buildings named after them? Should we remove their faces from Mount Rushmore?

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1 minute ago, sactowndog said:

Are you Fing kidding me?

Not in the least bit... and it's the usual suspects. 

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