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Nevada6077

Cops

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9 hours ago, ClevelandBrown said:

The stats I listed don't exist in any other western/developed country. Keep trying to defend an institution that is completely flawed and out of control.

We should expect better. I'm confused why you don't.

May be should start confiscating guns.  A couple hundred years from now, after all the guns have been confiscated and @sean327 is either in the can or dead in a shootout with the confiscators, we can hire a bunch of 1960's London Bobby's to patrol our streets.

Nobody is saying that policing can't be improved.  Nobody, at least not me, is saying I even trust or like cops. What I am saying is that the system is FAAAAAR from "completely flawed and out of control". That's just hyperbolic nonsense and emotionalism.

 

Also, I noticed that none of the cop haters in here have identified an alternative other than to stomp your collective feet and demand some notional, utopian world where all decisions are perfect and nobody is ever killed by the police no matter how far out of line they are.

The alternative it seems to me would be some sort of dystopian anarchy policed by vigilantes.  How fair of a shake do you think minorities would get in that world?

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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9 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

May be should start confiscating guns.  A couple hundred years from now, after all the guns have been confiscated and @sean327 is either in the can or dead in a shootout with the confiscators, we can hire a bunch of 1960's London Bobby's to patrol our streets.

Nobody is saying that policing can't be improved.  Nobody, at least not me, is saying I even trust or like cops. What I am saying is that the system is FAAAAAR from "completely flawed and out of control". That's just hyperbolic nonsense and emotionalism.

 

Also, I noticed that none of the cop haters in here have identified an alternative other than to stomp your collective feet and demand some notional, utopian world where all decisions are perfect and nobody is ever killed by the police no matter how far out of line they are.

The alternative it seems to me would be some sort of dystopian anarchy policed by vigilantes.  How fair of a shake do you think minorities would get in that world?

This discussion has come up here numerous times. Many have stated the police departments need outside oversight. That one change would go a long way in weeding out bad cops. Also getting rid of no knock warrants, ending the militarization of police and Sheriff’s departments, reforming their rules of engagement...... all of this has been put out there by numerous posters. 

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1 minute ago, SDSUfan said:

May be should start confiscating guns.  A couple hundred years from now, after all the guns have been confiscated and @sean327 is either in the can or dead in a shootout with the confiscators, we can hire a bunch of 1960's London Bobby's to patrol our streets.

Nobody is saying that policing can't be improved.  Nobody, at least not me, is saying I even trust or like cops. What I am saying is that the system is FAAAAAR from "completely flawed and out of control". That's just hyperbolic nonsense and emotionalism.

 

Also, I noticed that none of the cop haters in here have identified an alternative other than to stomp your collective feet and demand some notional, utopian world where all decisions are perfect and nobody is ever killed by the police no matter how far out of line they are.

The alternative it seems to me would be some sort of dystopian anarchy policed by vigilantes.  How fair of a shake do you think minorities would get in that world?

Not a cop hater. Hater of the institution and the unacceptable militarization of forces, corrupt departments, their backdoor handshakes with DA offices and judges, and the transition from being a force that protects and serves the proletariat (if it ever even existed in the first place), to one that intimidates and controls them.

I take that back. The protect and serve part still exists...they protect and serve themselves and the ruling class and it's authoritarian power structures.

Alternatives to what we have now?

- Demilitarization of forces

- Stop the "train to kill" mentality as if they're an occupying army and American citizens are the insurgency

- Promote and expand rehabilitation and decrease extreme punishment and incarceration for misdemeanors and minor felonies

- Eliminate private prisons that in exchange for campaign contributions are basically guaranteed quotas by local and state governments to keep their cells full

 

There's only a few ideas to transition from the absolute travesty we have now to a better and healthier society.

I think, therefore I'm.

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1 hour ago, sean327 said:

This discussion has come up here numerous times. Many have stated the police departments need outside oversight. That one change would go a long way in weeding out bad cops. Also getting rid of no knock warrants, ending the militarization of police and Sheriff’s departments, reforming their rules of engagement...... all of this has been put out there by numerous posters. 

Most large metropolitan areas have citizen review boards in one form or another. California cities in particular have been operating with CRB's for a very long time yet, ironically, the state leads the country in police shootings.

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2016/aug/12/ticker-police-review-board-rundown/

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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6 hours ago, SDSUfan said:

Maybe you should go to the academy and become a cop. Show them how it's done.

I expect better but I'm a realist. Police are human beings and human beings do stupid shit, make mistakes and are at times venal, mean and corrupt. So unless we get Robots to do the work (and we all know how that turns out) or Jesus Christ himself shows up to take on the job, we are stuck with ourselves and all of that imperfection.

 

I agree police are humans but why are benchmarks always ignored on the right.  Every organization in the world uses benchmarks to evaluate performance.  

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1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

I agree police are humans but why are benchmarks always ignored on the right.  Every organization in the world uses benchmarks to evaluate performance.  

Dude, Minneapolis is a liberal city. Their PD has a long glorious history of this shit. This problem isn’t a left or right problem.

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7 minutes ago, sean327 said:

Dude, Minneapolis is a liberal city. Their PD has a long glorious history of this shit. This problem isn’t a left or right problem.

Philando Castile anyone?

At least in my state, in order to be a police officer, you basically need a handful of college credits, pass a physical and mental wellness exam, and then once you get into the police academy you're ready in like 12-14 weeks.  It doesn't seem like nearly enough training.

It's unfair that cops routinely get judged by the worst of their profession.  But it doesn't seem like they get nearly enough training before they hit the streets.

Like medical professionals, people always assume that cops/doctors and the like are always as virtuous and competent as they are on TV.

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2 minutes ago, WAC_FAN said:

Philando Castile anyone?

 

That wasnt in Minneapolis.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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2 minutes ago, WAC_FAN said:

Philando Castile anyone?

At least in my state, in order to be a police officer, you basically need a handful of college credits, pass a physical and mental wellness exam, and then once you get into the police academy you're ready in like 12-14 weeks.  It doesn't seem like nearly enough training.

It's unfair that cops routinely get judged by the worst of their profession.  But it doesn't seem like they get nearly enough training before they hit the streets.

Like medical professionals, people always assume that cops/doctors and the like are always as virtuous and competent as they are on TV.

On top of that, a lot of cops are ex-military and aren't re-trained from being a soldier who's trained to kill, to being something entirely different. That kind of training would and should take months. That would be a good start.

I think, therefore I'm.

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1 hour ago, RSF said:

 

That wasnt in Minneapolis.

Falcon Heights is a suburb of Minneapolis, so not the the same PD but it’s damn sure the same mentality.

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3 hours ago, ClevelandBrown said:

On top of that, a lot of cops are ex-military and aren't re-trained from being a soldier who's trained to kill, to being something entirely different. That kind of training would and should take months. That would be a good start.

Most military vets are not trained killers. This is just nonsense. Most MP's spend four years checking CAC cards at the gate and writing traffic tickets. Actual combat vets understand trigger discipline and are LESS likely to panic under stress.

Where do you get these stereotypes?

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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Nothing will change until citizens get involved and go to Council meetings in force and demand change. The biggest change I believe that would do a lot of good is a separate citizens oversight committee that reviews every shooting and controversial action by the police. They can make recommendations to the city Council and if ignored go directly to the press.

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3 hours ago, sean327 said:

Dude, Minneapolis is a liberal city. Their PD has a long glorious history of this shit. This problem isn’t a left or right problem.

Probably best to not engage with that batshit crazy loon. He’s going to move the goalposts and throw about 37 different rabbit trails at you. He should be locked away like Hannibal Lector.

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I am friends with two police officers who both worked for me when they were younger.  One served in the navy (no college) while the other one has a criminal justice degree.  One has a great temperament to be a cop, the other one, not so much.

Both had less then three months in the police academy before given a badge and a gun.  Worked in the jail before going out on patrol, all within the first year.  Not nearly enough training in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, gold-n-brown said:

I am friends with two police officers who both worked for me when they were younger.  One served in the navy (no college) while the other one has a criminal justice degree.  One has a great temperament to be a cop, the other one, not so much.

Both had less then three months in the police academy before given a badge and a gun.  Worked in the jail before going out on patrol, all within the first year.  Not nearly enough training in my opinion.


Why would anyone want to be a cop in the first place? It’s a thankless career where most of the time you interact with people in bad circumstances. 

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The one with the good temperament is already thinking about his career choices. Unfortunately that leaves the one that just wanted health insurance :(

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20 hours ago, SDSUfan said:

The vast majority of people that get arrested and thrown in jail (>95%), deserved to be arrested and thrown in jail.

 

>95%? With our drug laws? GTFOH

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