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retrofade

Twitter labels Trump’s tweets with a fact check for the first time

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Guest #1Stunner
1 hour ago, retrofade said:

Which is why Stunner is nothing but a troll.

^^^ Unable to formulate an intelligent response.  His dumb comments will be met with this:

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Guest #1Stunner
1 hour ago, tspoke said:

But see according to stunner that is going to happen in the future so you don't know what will happen in the future so its an opinion. Now sure, that is not happening but between now and then they might change the laws and somehow make that legal and then go ahead and change the policies and send them to "anyone living in the state, no matter how they got there". So its only an opinion.

TIL any future event like the sun rising in the morning is just an opinion.

Logic Fail.

Someone expressing a Political Opinion on what they think will result in the future if a Policy is implemented is not an objective "Fact" that can even be checked.

It is their opinion and prediction of an outcome. 

 

Just because you disagree with their opinion on what the outcome will be, doesn't somehow make it a "fact" that can be objectively observed and corrected. 

That's the problem with what Twitter is doing in this instance.  They are "fact checking" political opinions.  Now if Trumps cites incorrect facts, by all means fact check the facts.  

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37 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Logic Fail.

Someone expressing a Political Opinion on what they think will result in the future if a Policy is implemented is not an objective "Fact" that can even be checked.

It is their prediction of an outcome. 

 

Just because you disagree with their opinion on what the outcome will be, doesn't somehow make it a "fact" that can be objectively observed and corrected. 

That's the problem with what Twitter is doing in this instance.  They are "fact checking" political opinions.  Now if Trumps cites incorrect facts, by all means fact check the facts.  

It's not a political opinion. It's an untrue statement about how mail in vote system works. It's not some hypothetical thing that we know nothing about. Hell you may have a point if he said "could lead to....." or something but he doesn't even do that. He states it as a fact and the fact is wrong. Hence the fact check. It's pretty simple. 

 

But troll on. 

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Think the lack of sports is starting to get to...some people....

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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2 hours ago, AndroidAggie said:

i confess i don't think the tweets between trump re: inevitable future massive election fraud and aoc re: past events that can (imo) reasonably be construed as systemic in nature can be compared in any meaningful fashion.

Thank you for this. I don't follow her or any politician for that matter but is this tweet from her really an opinion that most Americans don't share?

I think, therefore I'm.

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Guest #1Stunner
11 minutes ago, tspoke said:

It's not a political opinion. It's an untrue statement about how mail in vote system works.

It's not some hypothetical thing that we know nothing about.

Hell you may have a point if he said "could lead to....." or something but he doesn't even do that. He states it as a fact and the fact is wrong. Hence the fact check. It's pretty simple. 

 

Again, you seem completely perplexed on what an opinion is....

Trump basically said IF_______THEN_________(result).   You seem to think that his stated opinion of what the "result" will be is somehow a "false fact". (as if it isn't a debate).

 

This isn't a math problem of 2+2=4, or a chemistry problem.  This isn't a science question where the result is necessarily objective. 

This is Social Studies and Politics.  Of course the result is open to debate. 

There are all sorts of factors:  Was there voter suppression?  Was the mail system fair?  Was the written ballot fair?   Did this cause less participation?  Did non citizens vote?   etc, etc etc....

 

Trump merely said that  he predicts it will be corrupt if this policy is implemented on a wide spread basis. (his opinion).

You simply disagree with this Political Opinion, and are oddly arguing that we should try to suppress or discredit his opinion by some "fact check" exercise (since fact check implie non-bias by a disinterested actor).  But the fact check is simply Twitter linking articles to CNN, offering rebuttal argument/opinion.  (which themselves are not facts).   You cannot "fact check" something that is opinions.

 

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3 hours ago, East Coast Aztec said:

The political wonderlic.  I would guess there would be a few JaMarcus Russell scores along the way.

I wonder if there would be any meaningful correlation between scores and political effectiveness. Seems like a lot of the skills that make someone an effective politician are ones that are not well measured by an IQ test (or any other kind of pencil and paper test)

33 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Again, you seem completely perplexed on what an opinion is....

Trump basically said IF_______THEN_________(result).   You seem to think that his stated opinion of what the "result" will be is somehow a "false fact". (as if it isn't a debate).

 

This isn't a math problem of 2+2=4, or a chemistry problem.  This isn't a science question where the result is necessarily objective. 

This is Social Studies and Politics.  Of course the result is open to debate. 

There are all sorts of factors:  Was there voter suppression?  Was the mail system fair?  Was the written ballot fair?   Did this cause less participation?  Did non citizens vote?   etc, etc etc....

 

Trump merely said that  he predicts it will be corrupt if this policy is implemented on a wide spread basis. (his opinion).

You simply disagree with this Political Opinion, and are oddly arguing that we should try to suppress or discredit his opinion by some "fact check" exercise (since fact check implie non-bias by a disinterested actor).  But the fact check is simply Twitter linking articles to CNN, offering rebuttal argument/opinion.  (which themselves are not facts).   You cannot "fact check" something that is opinions.

 

We get it Stunner, you think it's only acceptable for owners of social media to call bullshit on Presidents when it is on MWCboard for some stupid reason

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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The POTUS threatening to use executive order to shut down or regulate a private platform like Twitter should frighten the ever living shit out of every American. 

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Guest #1Stunner
31 minutes ago, happycamper said:

We get it Stunner, you think it's only acceptable for owners of social media to call bullshit on Presidents when it is on MWCboard for some stupid reason

WRONG.  I don't think you get it at all.   It really has nothing to do with Trump.

 

I don't think it is acceptable for Social Media to censor opinions or ideas, unless it is imminent harm.

I think I agree with Facebook on this:

 

https://deadline.com/2020/05/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-avoid-harm-censorship-1202944403/

Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg Says Platform Policing Should Be Limited To Avoiding “Imminent Harm”

 

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Just now, #1Stunner said:

WRONG.  I don't think you get it at all.   It really has nothing to do with Trump.

 

I don't think it is acceptable for Social Media to censor opinions or ideas, unless it is imminent harm.

I think I agree with Facebook on this:

 

https://deadline.com/2020/05/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-avoid-harm-censorship-1202944403/

Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg Says Platform Policing Should Be Limited To Avoiding “Imminent Harm”

 

What do you think censorship is? Also, what do you think a private platform is? You think when I type +++++ that said censorship is unacceptable?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Guest #1Stunner
Just now, happycamper said:

What do you think censorship is?

Also, what do you think a private platform is? You think when I type +++++ that said censorship is unacceptable?

Laid out in this article:

https://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/social-clashes-digital-free-speech

 

It appears that Private Platform doesn't mean shit.  Read the article. 

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1 hour ago, RSF said:

Think the lack of sports is starting to get to...some people....

I feel it. I'm not to the point of let's argue about how the cesspool that is Twitter is trying to fix twitter, but I have watched a few innings of Korean baseball this week.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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Here is an interesting article on Facts vs Opinions in the news and how American perceive them.  Data was compiled by Pew Research.

  1. "A factual statement, regardless of whether it was accurate or inaccurate. In other words, they were to choose this classification if they thought that the statement could be proved or disproved based on objective evidence."
  2. "An opinion statement, regardless of whether they agreed with the statement or not. In other words, they were to choose this classification if they thought that it was based on the values and beliefs of the journalist or the source making the statement, and could not definitively be proved or disproved based on objective evidence."

https://www.journalism.org/2018/06/18/distinguishing-between-factual-and-opinion-statements-in-the-news/

 

Here are the statements they presented to the polling group for them to determine what was factual and what was opinion.

Factual statements

  • Health care costs per person in the U.S. are the highest in the developed world
  • President Barack Obama was born in the United States
  • Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally have some rights under the Constitution
  • ISIS lost a significant portion of its territory in Iraq and Syria in 2017
  • Spending on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid make up the largest portion of the U.S. federal budget

Opinion statements

  • Democracy is the greatest form of government
  • Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour is essential for the health of the U.S. economy
  • Abortion should be legal in most cases
  • Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today
  • Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient

Borderline statements

  • Applying additional scrutiny to Muslim Americans would not reduce terrorism in the U.S.
  • Voter fraud across the U.S. has undermined the results of our elections

 

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Guest #1Stunner
1 minute ago, PokeTransplant said:

Here is an interesting article on Facts vs Opinions in the news and how American perceive them.  Data was compiled by Pew Research.

  1. "A factual statement, regardless of whether it was accurate or inaccurate. In other words, they were to choose this classification if they thought that the statement could be proved or disproved based on objective evidence."
  2. "An opinion statement, regardless of whether they agreed with the statement or not. In other words, they were to choose this classification if they thought that it was based on the values and beliefs of the journalist or the source making the statement, and could not definitively be proved or disproved based on objective evidence."

https://www.journalism.org/2018/06/18/distinguishing-between-factual-and-opinion-statements-in-the-news/

 

Here are the statements they presented to the polling group for them to determine what was factual and what was opinion.

Factual statements

  • Health care costs per person in the U.S. are the highest in the developed world
  • President Barack Obama was born in the United States
  • Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally have some rights under the Constitution
  • ISIS lost a significant portion of its territory in Iraq and Syria in 2017
  • Spending on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid make up the largest portion of the U.S. federal budget

Opinion statements

  • Democracy is the greatest form of government
  • Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour is essential for the health of the U.S. economy
  • Abortion should be legal in most cases
  • Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today
  • Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient

Borderline statements

  • Applying additional scrutiny to Muslim Americans would not reduce terrorism in the U.S.
  • Voter fraud across the U.S. has undermined the results of our elections

 

Thank you for posting this.

If we've discovered one thing today, there is abundant confusion on FACT vs OPINION statements.

Some posters on here are learning for the fist time that not everything Trump states (or any Politician) is a factual statement. 

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46 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

The POTUS threatening to use executive order to shut down or regulate a private platform like Twitter should frighten the ever living shit out of every American. 

 

9A9D0829-5289-4981-9088-EC2F44B99440.jpeg

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Just now, #1Stunner said:

Thank you for posting this.

If we've discovered one thing today, there is abundant confusion on FACT vs OPINION statements.

Some posters on here are learning for the fist time that not everything Trump states (or any Politician) is a factual statement. 

The way I see this is if an "opinion" can be definitively proven or debunked based on factual evidence then I see nothing wrong with "fact checking" the statement.  Individuals still have free will to believe facts or not based on their own opinions of the source of the facts.

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Guest #1Stunner
1 minute ago, PokeTransplant said:

The way I see this is if an "opinion" can be definitively proven or debunked based on factual evidence then I see nothing wrong with "fact checking" the statement.  Individuals still have free will to believe facts or not based on their own opinions of the source of the facts.

I agree completely---i.e., that an political opinion can be rebutted with factual evidence.  By other users, or media.

I do not agree that the forum host (twitter) should play the role of "fact checker", or refuse to allow participants that they disagree with.   I do not think they should "flag" a post or ban a user, because their "fact check" is that they disagree with the user's political opinion. 

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16 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

I agree completely---i.e., that an political opinion can be rebutted with factual evidence.  By other users, or media.

I do not agree that the forum host (twitter) should play the role of "fact checker", or refuse to allow participants that they disagree with.   I do not think they should "flag" a post or ban a user, because their "fact check" is that they disagree with the user's political opinion. 

Holy shit man. “Vote by mail leads to widespread fraud” is not a political opinion. It’s an easily debunked lie. You can’t just make shit up and call it an opinion. Here let’s try an exercise:

The dinosaurs were killed by illegal immigrants. Don’t anyone dare censor me.

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