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mugtang

Being asked to wear a mask is not infringing on your civil liberties

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1 hour ago, mugtang said:

I do laugh at the people who wear them in their cars, especially when they’re by themselves

They may be tryIng to avoid touching their face but take the thing off from the back....

it seems common sense has been lost. 

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2 hours ago, mugtang said:

I do laugh at the people who wear them in their cars, especially when they’re by themselves

TBH, I wear one in the car because I find it a pain in the ass to put on and take off while wearing glasses and a hat. Easier to just wear until I get back home. Also more sanitary because I can wash my hands before taking the mask off.

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18 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

TBH, I wear one in the car because I find it a pain in the ass to put on and take off while wearing glasses and a hat. Easier to just wear until I get back home. Also more sanitary because I can wash my hands before taking the mask off.

This why people do it everywhere 

Not virtue signaling 

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1 hour ago, soupslam1 said:

I’m honestly surprised some governors haven’t mandated it when you leave your home. 

Why is that surprising? I think most governors understand that they need to pick their battles; mandating that people wear masks when they take out the trash isn't one they can win.

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5 hours ago, mugtang said:

That is all

@mugtang, I'm going to be a little contrarian here.  "Asking" as you put it is certainly not an infringement on civil liberties.  A government entity mandating it certainly is.  There is a very fair debate whether this virus presents enough of a public emergency to justify that, and it's certainly not on the same level as some sort of mandated curfew or requiring certain papers to cross a county border, etc., but it is an infringement on civil liberties.  However minor.

Here's what I wonder...why don't the big retail, etc. businesses grow a set and quit making some local health official tell them what to do.  I see signs announcing that due to an "order" by some governor, or county official, or whatever you must wear a mask in this establishment.  Those orders are illegal.  The government doesn't hold that right.  The owner of the aforementioned business however, absolutely holds that right.  Why don't I see any signs stating that "for the safety of our employees and customers you may not enter this establishment without a face covering"?  That's a perfectly legal rule to set up in your own establishment, and definitely reasonable.

I'm not as sold as most on the effectiveness of everybody throwing just anything over their face, but I do wear a mask or usually a neck gaiter when I'm indoors around large groups of people (grocery store, etc.), mostly because wearing one isn't much of an issue and I don't need to be making others uncomfortable, and it certainly isn't a "give me mask free, or give me death" type of issue.

I watched a couple berate a Walmart greeter because she offered them free masks to wear while shopping.  I also have a friend who was trying to repair a landscapers mower in a city park who was tattled on by somebody and received a warning from the PD for not having a mask on.  In the middle of an empty city park!  Two very different examples of completely stupid.

Anyway, way too long of a post but...asking folks to wear a mask is not an infringement of civil liberties.  Govt. mandate to wear a mask is an infringement, although perhaps a necessary one that requires limitations that don't allow it to become yet another gateway to carte blanche dismissal of civil liberties down the road.  Just my long winded opinion.

 

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@Headbutt

Is there a government mandate to wear masks.... anywhere? Other than civic buildings where government workers work? I feel like people think this is a thing and it's not. Some businesses are mandating it but that's their right, just like not making wedding cakes for gay couples.

Yes our government has imposed measures to ensure and encourage distancing but most of the public supports and adheres it. 

Please, if I'm wrong, show me where the government is requiring a mask.

I think, therefore I'm.

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6 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

@mugtang, I'm going to be a little contrarian here.  "Asking" as you put it is certainly not an infringement on civil liberties.  A government entity mandating it certainly is.  There is a very fair debate whether this virus presents enough of a public emergency to justify that, and it's certainly not on the same level as some sort of mandated curfew or requiring certain papers to cross a county border, etc., but it is an infringement on civil liberties.  However minor.

Here's what I wonder...why don't the big retail, etc. businesses grow a set and quit making some local health official tell them what to do.  I see signs announcing that due to an "order" by some governor, or county official, or whatever you must wear a mask in this establishment.  Those orders are illegal.  The government doesn't hold that right.  The owner of the aforementioned business however, absolutely holds that right.  Why don't I see any signs stating that "for the safety of our employees and customers you may not enter this establishment without a face covering"?  That's a perfectly legal rule to set up in your own establishment, and definitely reasonable.

I'm not as sold as most on the effectiveness of everybody throwing just anything over their face, but I do wear a mask or usually a neck gaiter when I'm indoors around large groups of people (grocery store, etc.), mostly because wearing one isn't much of an issue and I don't need to be making others uncomfortable, and it certainly isn't a "give me mask free, or give me death" type of issue.

I watched a couple berate a Walmart greeter because she offered them free masks to wear while shopping.  I also have a friend who was trying to repair a landscapers mower in a city park who was tattled on by somebody and received a warning from the PD for not having a mask on.  In the middle of an empty city park!  Two very different examples of completely stupid.

Anyway, way too long of a post but...asking folks to wear a mask is not an infringement of civil liberties.  Govt. mandate to wear a mask is an infringement, although perhaps a necessary one that requires limitations that don't allow it to become yet another gateway to carte blanche dismissal of civil liberties down the road.  Just my long winded opinion.

 

To par down your self described long winded opinion...  how many here remember signs stating ,"No Shoes, No Shirt, No service."

They were put up by business owners,  not government mandates.  And they were legally binding.

 

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I've posted it here before, and I'll probably go looking for it, but yes.  Larimer County, CO (Ft. Collins and Loveland) did mandate that masks had to be worn inside any building open to the public.  The only exceptions were state and federal buildings where the county had no jurisdiction.

I was splitting hairs though, while I know there are plenty of other city and counties doing the same (it's been in the news), that wasn't the point.  I was more addressing the question of civil liberties.  Like I said, the masks are a minor thing but not in the purview of the government IMO.

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3 minutes ago, DestinFlPackfan said:

To par down your self described long winded opinion...  how many here remember signs stating ,"No Shoes, No Shirt, No service."

They were put up by business owners,  not government mandates.  And they were legally binding.

 

And so were the signs that said "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".  Those were OK for a while, now you can't do that.  Probably because while there is a good basis for reserving that right, it was perceived (rightly or wrongly) to mostly be a racist approach.

BTW, the shirt and shoes thing still holds water.  Probably because it definitely has the backing of the health dept.

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The NM governor has ordered that all businesses, employees and patrons must wear a mask. Nobody is getting arrested for not wearing one so she has left it up to individual businesses to enforce. After the order I see at 90% mask compliance but that number is going down day by day.

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21 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

@mugtang, I'm going to be a little contrarian here.  "Asking" as you put it is certainly not an infringement on civil liberties.  A government entity mandating it certainly is.  There is a very fair debate whether this virus presents enough of a public emergency to justify that, and it's certainly not on the same level as some sort of mandated curfew or requiring certain papers to cross a county border, etc., but it is an infringement on civil liberties.  However minor.

Here's what I wonder...why don't the big retail, etc. businesses grow a set and quit making some local health official tell them what to do.  I see signs announcing that due to an "order" by some governor, or county official, or whatever you must wear a mask in this establishment.  Those orders are illegal.  The government doesn't hold that right.  The owner of the aforementioned business however, absolutely holds that right.  Why don't I see any signs stating that "for the safety of our employees and customers you may not enter this establishment without a face covering"?  That's a perfectly legal rule to set up in your own establishment, and definitely reasonable.

I'm not as sold as most on the effectiveness of everybody throwing just anything over their face, but I do wear a mask or usually a neck gaiter when I'm indoors around large groups of people (grocery store, etc.), mostly because wearing one isn't much of an issue and I don't need to be making others uncomfortable, and it certainly isn't a "give me mask free, or give me death" type of issue.

I watched a couple berate a Walmart greeter because she offered them free masks to wear while shopping.  I also have a friend who was trying to repair a landscapers mower in a city park who was tattled on by somebody and received a warning from the PD for not having a mask on.  In the middle of an empty city park!  Two very different examples of completely stupid.

Anyway, way too long of a post but...asking folks to wear a mask is not an infringement of civil liberties.  Govt. mandate to wear a mask is an infringement, although perhaps a necessary one that requires limitations that don't allow it to become yet another gateway to carte blanche dismissal of civil liberties down the road.  Just my long winded opinion.

 

I’m curious.  How do you justify requirements to wear a mask as an infringement on civil liberties  and not the requirement for women to wear a bikini top on the beach?  Not wearing a mask has many more significant public health issues than a women being topless and yet I don’t see the outrage from the right about those civil liberties being violated despite the clear greater public health risk.  

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Just now, sactowndog said:

I’m curious.  How do you justify requirements to wear a mask as an infringement on civil liberties  and not the requirement for women to wear a bikini top on the beach?  Not wearing a mask has many more significant public health issues than a women being topless and yet I don’t see the outrage from the right about those civil liberties being violated despite the clear greater public health risk.  

They can go butt naked IMO.  I'm all in.

 

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22 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

I've posted it here before, and I'll probably go looking for it, but yes.  Larimer County, CO (Ft. Collins and Loveland) did mandate that masks had to be worn inside any building open to the public.  The only exceptions were state and federal buildings where the county had no jurisdiction.

I was splitting hairs though, while I know there are plenty of other city and counties doing the same (it's been in the news), that wasn't the point.  I was more addressing the question of civil liberties.  Like I said, the masks are a minor thing but not in the purview of the government IMO.

I was misinformed then, my bad.

I think, therefore I'm.

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23 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

I’m curious.  How do you justify requirements to wear a mask as an infringement on civil liberties  and not the requirement for women to wear a bikini top on the beach?  Not wearing a mask has many more significant public health issues than a women being topless and yet I don’t see the outrage from the right about those civil liberties being violated despite the clear greater public health risk.  

Serious answer @sactowndog, we sometimes do violate civil liberties for the good of the populous.  As I stated, this would be a fair debate as to whether mandated masks falls into that category as a necessary evil, so to speak.  I think that's a separate debate.  My main point was (and is) that mandating masks is definitely an infringement of civil liberties.  The only argument is whether it is warranted.  As far as @mugtang's point about asking it to be done, hell no asking for compliance is not an infringement.  It's good policy.  It's also probably going to be more effective than pissing folks off with the heavy hand of government.

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29 minutes ago, Headbutt said:

Serious answer @sactowndog, we sometimes do violate civil liberties for the good of the populous.  As I stated, this would be a fair debate as to whether mandated masks falls into that category as a necessary evil, so to speak.  I think that's a separate debate.  My main point was (and is) that mandating masks is definitely an infringement of civil liberties.  The only argument is whether it is warranted.  As far as @mugtang's point about asking it to be done, hell no asking for compliance is not an infringement.  It's good policy.  It's also probably going to be more effective than pissing folks off with the heavy hand of government.

I’m not sure the court would agree it’s an infringement on civil liberties if government mandates what you wear...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1ZC1HQ

if a case were brought it would certainly set a precedent that might not be what people want.

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7 hours ago, NVGiant said:

It is all truly remarkable. ... But we probably should quit with all this kind of talk. @smltwnrckr is going to get repetitive strain injury from patting himself on the back too much.  

Even when I'm not using words, you still got to give me an inch count. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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The reaction of people being inconvenienced for the first time in their lives is hilarious and sad at the same time. I’m not convinced the mask does a whole lot but if it makes the person I walk by feel a little bit safer then why make an issue out of it. It takes zero effort to wear the mask.

 

Same people who cry about their rights being violated aren’t bothered by things like FISA and the Patriot Act, which actually do violate their rights.

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35 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

I’m not sure the court would agree it’s an infringement on civil liberties if government mandates what you wear...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1ZC1HQ

if a case were brought it would certainly set a precedent that might not be what people want.

You're reaction to this subject is to point out that SCOTUS isn't interested in discussing my dream of free titties?

C'mon man, you can do better than that.

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