Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

sean327

Nationwide Protest and civil unrest game thread

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I'd wager cops today are generally better than they were 10 years ago, they better than those 20 years earlier, them far superior to those 30 years earlier, and the guys with the job 40 years before that barely resembled any on them. Things do change for the better, but not in the time it takes to burn down a building.

Cops should be like these guys:

The-Andy-Griffith-Show-1966.jpg

reginald-veljohnson.jpg

e5c9ba9374f518068cb61f6440843838.jpg

+++++ing serve and protect.

bsu_retro_bsu_logo_helmet.b_1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Awwww, you edited it just when I was about to get pithy. Don't think I didn't notice the property over humanity jab though.

You're right. I do prefer my city blocks to not be overrun with structure fires. For the police to not be forced to retreat, so that only mob law exists and that any crime, even the most violent, can't be investigated properly because the entire city has descended into madness. Maybe we get lucky, not too many people get murdered or raped or abused or burglarized than a normal couple of beautiful Minnesota nights. I doubt it though. Maybe those people's humanity counts less when caught up in a great human event leading to...what exactly? Still, I do prefer those buildings to not be on fire, those mobs to not be stealing and vandalizing, people with recourse to report a crime to be investigated, you've got me there. Maybe it's just because I like Arby's though.

I see that state of things, pun intended, as a failure of the state to serve its citizens and preserve the peace

Like I don't look at the rioters and say 'how dare you?!"

I feel like saying that to the Minneapolis PD 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I don't think he misunderstands it. I think he might be looking for other legitimate causes for political change and suggesting that they were more impactful or more of the primary cause for those changes than the violence. I think he might be doing that because he may have a hard time looking at particular instances of violence as morally good, which is the implication when they are the main causal agent of positive political change. 

I would say I'd generally agree with him. Violence is not good. Violence is not moral. It is at best a-moral, and that's usually in an abstract ethical for-instance. Violence is just violence.  Even if it is a predictable outcome from political, social or economic inequalities. There is no such thing as positive violence. Even if you think the violence is justified. So it is worth pointing that out, and agreeing to it, even if you are arguing that rioters or revolutionaries cutting off the heads of the bourgeois are agents of positive social change. At least in my opinion.

I would guess that the difference between me and him and me and a lot of people is that people have a hard time with accepting the paradox that something moral like positive social change can come from something amoral like death and terror. So either one has to decide there is such thing as positive or moral or justifiable violence (as well as its opposite) or one has to look at other, more moral agents of change as the main reasons for moral outcomes. 

@thelawlorfaithful sincere apologies if I am mischaracterizing you. I do realize that these are based on assumptions, as we haven't actually had the conversations. Feel free to set me straight. 

Nah you did a good job. Made me sound like a bit of a ninny about the use of violence when I told you my inclination is to always be Ghengis Khan, but that's okay.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I'd wager cops today are generally better than they were 10 years ago, they better than those 20 years earlier, them far superior to those 30 years earlier, and the guys with the job 40 years before that barely resembled any on them. Things do change for the better, but not in the time it takes to burn down a building.

Silence will ensure that the snail pace of improvement continues.  Neither of us like a burned building, or damage to people's property, and if they are caught they need to be charged and punished.  But I am looking at the cause of it, and with some of the videos coming out and the alleged involvement of police to instigate the rioting, and seeing a bigger problem, a systemic and tactical use of fear and subversion by the very people sworn to protect and serve.  Buildings will continue to burn until the root issues in each of these precincts is identified and a solution to it is implemented.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

I see that state of things, pun intended, as a failure of the state to serve its citizens and preserve the peace

Like I don't look at the rioters and say 'how dare you?!"

I feel like saying that to the Minneapolis PD 

No you don't. What do you want them to do, blanket the place with rubber bullets and tear gas. Give them a whiff of grapeshot maybe? Nobody wants that (I hope). They could preserve the peace and serve the citizens, but I don't think you or I would be okay with what that entails. A lot of damage to structures is preferable to a the blood it takes to put down a riot, in my eyes. It still sucks though.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, East Coast Aztec said:

Silence will ensure that the snail pace of improvement continues.  Neither of us like a burned building, or damage to people's property, and if they are caught they need to be charged and punished.  But I am looking at the cause of it, and with some of the videos coming out and the alleged involvement of police to instigate the rioting, and seeing a bigger problem, a systemic and tactical use of fear and subversion by the very people sworn to protect and serve.  Buildings will continue to burn until the root issues in each of these precincts is identified and a solution to it is implemented.

Sigh...I think I'll bow out for the day and drink on that. Hopefully things go better tonight. But if they don't, can somebody please start bumping sublime during the riot? 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No you don't. What do you want them to do, blanket the place with rubber bullets and tear gas. Give them a whiff of grapeshot maybe? Nobody wants that (I hope). They could preserve the peace and serve the citizens, but I don't think you or I would be okay with what that entails. A lot of damage to structures is preferable to a the blood it takes to put down a riot, in my eyes. It still sucks though.

Perhaps I've missed your point, overall. Please correct me if so. 

The failure, over the years, to build trust in the system, has resulted in today's rioting. 

Citizens who feel they have ownership in the society and culture to which they belong don't riot. Instead of having things to say about the riots, I have things to say about those in power who allowed the malicious ostracization and marginalization to occur, to say nothing of the murder of the man in question. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Sigh...I think I'll bow out for the day and drink on that. Hopefully things go better tonight. But if they don't, can somebody please start bumping sublime during the riot? 

Most of my family are there, so I really want this to stop, both the riots and the shady behavior that has plagued Twin Cities police these last few years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any of you guys that think burning shit down is the way we solve problems in this country, you're just as brain fvcking dead as the looters are. Your emotions are out of control. Who do you think is going to pay for that?  A lot of it will be taxes that come from that neighborhood, self victimization. And no one else that pays taxes should have to pay for that. You think 4 or 5 bad cops out of the 100 or whatever that work there makes it OK for the other 95 that are good cops to have to go through this? It's mind blowing, really. And I don't really have the greatest love for cops, in general, either. If this is OK, then that just opens another door. So next they'll go to officers homes and burn them down. And that will happen if everyone has the same stupid mentality as you. The fact that the City of M didn't get control of this right away has led to rioting in other cities, and it'll just keep going until someone draws a hard line, and if they cross it, they're in cuffs. Simple as that. That mayor is a total wuss. Only 500 national guard troops doing nothing? You can never justify this behavior, because when they find out it's OK, they keep pushing and pushing until someone stops them. I'm certainly not a fan of the Chief Gates LAPD philosophy of dealing with looting, but you have to be firm with these thugs that you seem to think are so cool. 

kat.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Awwww, you edited it just when I was about to get pithy. Don't think I didn't notice the property over humanity jab though.

You're right. I do prefer my city blocks to not be overrun with structure fires. For the police to not be forced to retreat, so that only mob law exists and that any crime, even the most violent, can't be investigated properly because the entire city has descended into madness. Maybe we get lucky, not too many people get murdered or raped or abused or burglarized than a normal couple of beautiful Minnesota nights. I doubt it though. Maybe those people's humanity counts less when caught up in a great human event leading to...what exactly? Still, I do prefer those buildings to not be on fire, those mobs to not be stealing and vandalizing, people with recourse to report a crime to be investigated, you've got me there. Maybe it's just because I like Arby's though.

The sin of riot is nothing compared to the sin of hundreds of years of violent, systemic racism. The hypothetical and exaggerated inter-riot violence you propose here at its worst is Mr. Rogers' neighborhood when compared to the centuries-long rape and murder of black Americans that police forces perpetuate in this country. When you deny whole subjugated classes basic humanity and refuse to change by other forms of protest, the destruction of some faceless corporation's precious property is inconsequential. Your pearl-clutching here is disappointing and belies more personal investment in order than justice. 

1 hour ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I'd wager cops today are generally better than they were 10 years ago, they better than those 20 years earlier, them far superior to those 30 years earlier, and the guys with the job 40 years before that barely resembled any on them. Things do change for the better, but not in the time it takes to burn down a building.

Oh yeah, I now remember that the police just changed by themselves due to benevolent self-regulation, not rioting!

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, renoskier said:

Except in assuming that she's a "liberal Hillary Clinton supporter".

 

Read an interview of a former romantic interest of hers. According to him, she mocked him for voting for Obama. And I have a hard time seeing the VP of a financial investment firm voting for a D. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, smltwnrckr said:

I don't think he misunderstands it. I think he might be looking for other legitimate causes for political change and suggesting that they were more impactful or more of the primary cause for those changes than the violence. I think he might be doing that because he may have a hard time looking at particular instances of violence as morally good, which is the implication when they are the main causal agent of positive political change. 

I would say I'd generally agree with him. Violence is not good. Violence is not moral. It is at best a-moral, and that's usually in an abstract ethical for-instance. Violence is just violence.  Even if it is a predictable outcome from political, social or economic inequalities. There is no such thing as positive violence. Even if you think the violence is justified. So it is worth pointing that out, and agreeing to it, even if you are arguing that rioters or revolutionaries cutting off the heads of the bourgeois are agents of positive social change. At least in my opinion.

I would guess that the difference between me and him and me and a lot of people is that people have a hard time with accepting the paradox that something moral like positive social change can come from something amoral or immoral like death and terror. So either you have to decide there is such thing as positive or moral or justifiable violence (as well as its opposite) or you have to look at other, more measured and rational agents of change as the main reasons for moral outcomes. 

@thelawlorfaithful sincere apologies if I am mischaracterizing you. I do realize that these are based on assumptions, as we haven't actually had the conversations. Feel free to set me straight. 

This is not an unpopular opinion when people discuss white freedom movements. Perhaps people are uncomfortable with the other side of the coin.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Nah you did a good job. Made me sound like a bit of a ninny about the use of violence when I told you my inclination is to always be Ghengis Khan, but that's okay.

Oh, I know you're a tyrant in pacifist clothing. The fact that you haven't already gone all Sheriff of Nottingham to @mugtang's King Richard during his camping crusade is frankly a bit of a head scratcher. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, FresnoFacts said:

When I watched and listened to the entire video, there was one part that told me what kind of man he was.

Officer Chauvin asks George Floyd if he will get into the car. Floyd says he will. Chauvin never lets go to allow that to happen.

For me it is the way he stared in to one of the cellphones recording him. (it's posted on this thread actually.) You can see a heartless individual.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

This is not an unpopular opinion when people discuss white freedom movements. Perhaps people are uncomfortable with the other side of the coin.

You're not wrong. People are idiots. I remember having a conversation with bluetools (well, as much of one as you can have with that guy) about the apocalypse where he was basically saying the ability to inflict violence will be the ultimate decider of who survives and thrives. I said, actually while violence would be a reality in such a situation, the ability to forge relationships would be the ultimate decider of who survives. I got a lot of HA HA HA

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

You're not wrong. People are idiots. I remember having a conversation with bluetools (well, as much of one as you can have with that guy) about the apocalypse where he was basically saying the ability to inflict violence will be the ultimate decider of who survives and thrives. I said, actually while violence would be a reality in such a situation, the ability to forge relationships would be the ultimate decider of who survives. I got a lot of HA HA HA

Well, violence would be important but not the end-all-be-all.

 

One of the primary benefits to forging relationships with others would be an increased capacity to inflict violence, however.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, bornontheblue said:

One protest didn't involve burning down buildings, setting cars on fire, and looting stores. Wouldn't you think you need to take that into consideration. 

Yet, gun men stormed the state capital in Michigan. Crickets from law enforcement, State and nat'l guard. That was a direct threat to local and State officials. Spare us your bullshit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...