Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

halfmanhalfbronco

It's time for reparations for decedents of slaves.

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

A short term economic boost is not the end objective here I thought?  If you want to create generational wealth a one-time check isn’t going to do that on a broad scale.  Look at how many professional athletes burn through far larger sums of money within a couple of years - it’s like 60% - 80% of NBA/NFL players go pretty much broke after a few years once that income stream dries up.  I know that’s a bit of apples vs turnips but $50K can be mostly burnt through with a simple car purchase.

It is not.  It is based on averages.  If 60% of our black community can build generational wealth with it, that is a huge win.  HUUUUGE.  Even if 40% do not.  I agree.  Before you get your check, take a workshop.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, NorCalCoug said:

I think the demographics of the “inheritance” vs “reparation” groups would be very different, as would their response to a sudden influx of money.

I agree.  I think the "reparations" group would take the gravity of the money far more seriously.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

I'n going to respond, not for you, but for others who may read this.

 

 

Most of the wealth gained in this country is either inherited, or is the byproduct of circumstances and capital gained by inheritance. Black people were systematically denied wealth by federal and state governments for hundreds of years. Because of this, they have less to inherit, both in real terms (real estate, cash) and in situational terms (good schools, sufficient food security, safety from violence, etc.). In turn, their children have less to inherit, and so on, until you get this

 

 

inequality wealth lag 

And it's getting worse. 

 

 

Here's a well-written article highlighting in a compelling way some of the practices that led to this wealth gap. 

 https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

 

For someone who wants a more academic and systematic look at the topic I have two main suggestions (there is a lot more literature on this just ask me if you want)

Richard Rothstein, Color of Law: The Forgotten History of How our Government Segregated America

Arnold Hirsch, Making the Second Ghetto: Race and Housing in Chicago  1940-1960

 

 

There may always be rich and poor, but the racial basis on which people are generally assigned to each is not due to the existence of a pure meritocracy. It is, in large part, due to the past. It is due both to violence (genocide of Native Americans, slavery, Jim Crow, etc.), and oppressive economic and legal systems. The built-in disadvantages that these forces put into place have more of an effect on picking and choosing winners than anything else in our society. This is seen quite clearly by the stark dividing line between white and black in this country. When you look at the data this is pretty obvious. There's no way to quantify all of the anecdotes about "hard work,"  but there is ready information to easily show that being born black, and being born into poverty in this country TODAY is a relative disadvantage. Recent studies show continued barriers for black people.

Here's a couple recent examples.

https://www.pnas.org/content/114/41/10870.full

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/reports/2019/07/15/469838/racial-disparities-home-appreciation/

https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2015/01/28/us-education-still-separate-and-unequal

 

Now, the common explanation for the racial wealth gap independent of the facts is to try to parrot misunderstandings about "black cultural pathology."  I won't address all of the incorrect assumptions embedded in these stereotypes about black single motherhood or criminality here. What I will do is ask one, simple question to those who cling onto "black cultural inferiority" as an explanation. Where did this so-called culture come from? 

 

Do cultures just drop out of the +++++ing sky? Or are they the result of economic and social circumstances? Circumstances produced by racist policies?

 

This line of reasoning lacks internal logic, and even if you take it at face value, a search into the origins of this mythical "black culture" inevitably leads you to systemic racism as the causal factor for its existence and propogation.

 

 

 

Ultimately, a facts-based look at the racial wealth gap in this country shows clearly that it is rooted in racist systems and their aftereffects. Anyone telling you different simply is not having an honest conversation about the topic. 

 

 

good.  yell this louder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Nobody bothered to read it.  Just look at the comments since then.  BOOTSTRAPS!  

I read it.  I hope that wasn’t in reference to my comments.  I just questioned the efficacy of such a program against its intended goals.  I think there has to be a better and more “long-lasting” solution than a one-time check.

v0icAvfW.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Bob said:

What about mormons who got driven from their homes about four times?

we'll settle for a us-wide consensus that we're not in a cult.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"but you ARE in a cult!"

piss off, wanker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I read it.  I hope that wasn’t in reference to my comments.  I just questioned the efficacy of such a program against its intended goals.  I think there has to be a better and more “long-lasting” solution than a one-time check.

No, you have been an honest participant.  I think you are a little jaded in how you think people would spend the money.  And I agree it is not a simple fix as easy as writing a check.  But I think that immediate safety net is critical to make anything else work.  I liked your idea of federally subsidizing school districts instead of having them rely on taxes in their local municipalities alone.  But when you can not afford a computer or internet service, how do you compete with urban white kids?  When mom and dad are working two jobs or not there, who helps make sure you are doing the homework?  When you can not wear new shoes because another poverty stricken kid will beat you up for them, the summer school shopping white America enjoys loses some luster.  A cash influx would solve so many problems.  A real cash influx.  Welfare is not that.  Welfare is slow bleeding and does not incentives risk, it makes you make sure you get enough to barely survive and you better not take a risk or you could lose it.  A big fat check?  Shiiiiit.  

Another thing to point out is most impoverished blacks are not bangers, thugs, drunks.  They are statisitcally less likely to abuse drugs and alcohol than white people of any economic background.  In fact, black Christians shame white Christians.  And there are a whole lot of them.  Generally they are soooooo much more involved in their community than white Christians.  The love in those halls is beyond amazing.  You know why Christianity is such a huge draw in black America?  Because the teachings of Christ hit really, really hard to the oppressed.

I know that one aztec fan will throw a fit when I say black Americans are better Christians and abuse alcohol and drugs less than white people.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Bob said:

No one alive was a slave or a slave owner. At what point do people finally let it go. Should I feel bad about my uncle stealing toys in 1963, too?

Plenty of people still around who were part of redlining, exclusionary lending and hiring practices, and disparately oppressive neighborhood policing that were either explicitly or complicitly allowed by governments.  Not to mention individuals prejudices in renting, hiring/promoting, socializing.

 

And I personally am against reparations, but refusing to recognize the race started with some peoples shoelaces tied to each other is disingenuous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

Plenty of people still around who were part of redlining, exclusionary lending and hiring practices, and disparately oppressive neighborhood policing that were either explicitly or complicitly allowed by governments.  Not to mention individuals prejudices in renting, hiring/promoting, socializing.

 

And I personally am against reparations, but refusing to recognize the race started with some peoples shoelaces tied to each other is disingenuous.

Oh, you mean like Donald Trump.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
24 minutes ago, Bob said:

What about mormons who got driven from their homes about four times?

Don't forget the Urine Bombs thrown at us in Laramie.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

Oh, you mean like Donald Trump.

It is too prevalent to act like he normalized it though.  It has been normalized forever.  Blacks, Irish, Chinese, Indians, the other Indians, Muslims, Gays,  Pretty much everyone has felt it, some more than others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner

The Mormons and African Americans (America's most oppressed groups) are partnering together.

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2018/07/21/lds-church-naacp-partner-initiatives-east-coast/813371002/

 

 

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, based in Baltimore, is the nation's oldest civil rights organization.

The church and NAACP found a common ground in their desire to help people during their May summit, Karen Boykins-Towns, vice chairwoman of the NAACP board, said in a statement released by the church.

NAACP members, Mormons and others will teach courses at churches and community centers that will help students find better jobs, enhance their income, manage personal finances and start and grow their businesses.

"Our unified vision is not only equality of education and income, but, perhaps more importantly, equality of influence," Mormon general authority Jack N. Gerard told the Deseret News.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, for anybody claiming I have white guilt or whatever.  No.  I am proud of my ancestry.  I am a direct decedent of General Black Jack Logan.  One of the most gifted generals in the confederacy.  I see a lot of nuance in the civil war that I am sure @youngrebelfan40 and I could debate for days on.  I am proud of my ancestors that settled Idaho.  My great, great grandma walked her from Missouri along side the wagon as a 9 year old. 3 members of their group of 34 died, which was a success.  They had the largest farm in Northern Idaho on what was Indian land.  The Nez Pierce were welcome on their farm and would show up in the dozens once or twice a year.  One of our families prized possessions is some native jewelry made for the kids that was traded for bread and beef.  My family donated some original stills to the Idaho Historical museum of the family and farm hands more or less partying on "their" (depending on the side) land.  I am proud of that history and the bravery and courage of my ancestors.

That all said, being born white is a privilege not afforded to other Americans not born white because of centuries of +++++ING BULLSHIT.  Centuries of evil practices.  I have overcome a lot in my life and barely made it, by the skin of my teeth.  If you added on the burden of not being a white man in Idaho, I would probably be dead or in prison.  I was raised in poverty.  I came from poverty.  I did not have a bed until I was 12, I slept on cot in a room I shared with my mom and sister.  I have battled drug addiction, poverty, severe medical issues, sexual abuse.  I barely made it and many times I was teetering, while posting on this board (10 years ago or so).  If I had one single more slight barrier in my way, such as not being a white boy in Idaho I would not have made it.  I would not have.  That is what white privilege is.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look, I’m in no way advocating for reparations, I’m just trying to point out that once you do it for one group, others will start screaming for theirs. @East Coast Aztec pointed out the problems last couple of posts up, and he’s correct. Until we truly level the playing for everyone by getting rid of bullshit biases in housing, employment, education, and healthcare, this question will always come up. I don’t pretend to know how we get people to quit being assholes to others on the basis of skin color on a national level, but I do know it needs to start on an individual basis. Everyone has a bias, what matters is you recognize it and find ways to mitigate it so you can stop being an asshole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/16/2020 at 4:22 PM, sean327 said:

What about Native Americans? And the Chinese may have come of their own free will, but they had the shit exploited out of them. I’m in no way in favor of reparations for any group, just making the argument that there are other groups just as deserving if we go down that road.

A lot of Chinese didn’t come on their own free will.

kat.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
29 minutes ago, sean327 said:

Look, I’m in no way advocating for reparations, I’m just trying to point out that once you do it for one group, others will start screaming for theirs. @East Coast Aztec pointed out the problems last couple of posts up, and he’s correct. Until we truly level the playing for everyone by getting rid of bullshit biases in housing, employment, education, and healthcare, this question will always come up. I don’t pretend to know how we get people to quit being assholes to others on the basis of skin color on a national level, but I do know it needs to start on an individual basis. Everyone has a bias, what matters is you recognize it and find ways to mitigate it so you can stop being an asshole.

The New Mexicans have a legit beef, and probably deserve something as well.

Plus, the Idahoans.... there have been a lot of Potato jokes over the years (I'm guilty of this).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
27 minutes ago, Nevada Convert said:

A lot of Chinese didn’t come on their own free will.

Don't forget the Irish.

Remember how they used to beat up the Irish?   I watched that film, "Far and Away", and saw how they mistreated the Irish.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...