It's time for reparations for decedents of slaves.

[soupslam1]

14 minutes ago, renoskier said:

In spite of what I've written, I actually tend to agree with you.

But do you have any ideas of what we should do? How does an entire country atone for injustices of the past?

You can’t. It was a different time and frame of reference, but slavery was the worst event in the history of our country. It’s had repercussions for centuries. We’ve tried to rectify it and have utterly failed. Reparations would be just one more failure IMO. 

[renoskier]

Just now, soupslam1 said:

You can’t. It was a different time and frame of reference, but slavery was the worst event in the history of our country. It’s had repercussions for centuries. 

So, in other words, we shouldn't do a damn thing?

Like someone said earlier, your only solution is "bootstraps?

[Guest #1Stunner]

1 hour ago, toonkee said:

I say make the education available to the recipients at no cost, but not mandatory. Certainly we all could use financial education but you can't give someone reparations for slavery with a lecture. That's peak condescension.

I don't think the NAACP is being condescending.

And they are offering financial classes for free. 

[soupslam1]

14 minutes ago, renoskier said:

So, in other words, we shouldn't do a damn thing?

Like someone said earlier, your only solution is "bootstraps?

What would you propose? I’ve previously indicated numerous times I believe the best solution is education. However, trying to implement it would be difficult. Provide monetary incentives for the better teachers to want to teach in the black communities. Provide sufficient resource officers for a safe learning environment. However, that still does not deal with the situations black kids face when they leave school, and how that impacts education. 

Im not sure if there are any black posters on this board. It would be enlightening to hear solutions they would propose. 

[BSUTOP25]

17 minutes ago, renoskier said:

In spite of what I've written, I actually tend to agree with you.

But do you have any ideas of what we should do? How does an entire country atone for injustices of the past?

We have to come to grips with the fact that our society is being splintered with such a chasm between blacks and the rest of the country. It should be viewed as a collective best interest to improve the financial and communal wellbeing of black Americans. Otherwise, we will simply continue to see a greater gap in household wealth along with more broken homes, crime, addiction, distrust, and civil unrest.

I don’t know if reparations are the answer but we have to seek out solutions to improve the day to day lives of black Americans with better education, employment opportunities, household wealth, and more equity within the justice system.

[toonkee]

17 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

I don't think the NAACP is being condescending.

And they are offering financial classes for free. 

I did not say they were.  I said making the money conditional is condescending. 

[toonkee]

42 minutes ago, Jackrabbit said:

 During the great depression, missionaries would offer free meals, after the sermon.

Govt lectures us all the time...why not this.   If I dont pay my taxes...I could lose all my assets, if someone squanders welfare....no big deal, there will always be more. 

There needs to be some accountibilty on both sides.

[toonkee]

4 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

We have to come to grips with the fact that our society is being splintered with such a chasm between blacks and the rest of the country. It should be viewed as a collective best interest to improve the financial and communal wellbeing of black Americans. Otherwise, we will simply continue to see a greater gap in household wealth along with more broken homes, crime, addiction, distrust, and civil unrest.

I don’t know if reparations are the answer but we have to seek out solutions to improve the day to day lives of black Americans with better education, employment opportunities, household wealth, and more equity within the justice system.

Agreed.

But I think in a national spiritual sense, maybe reparations are a part of all that, the acknowledgement of and atonement for the actions of the government. It may not solve the societal rift but it may be a necessary part of allowing that scar to heal.

[BSUTOP25]

5 minutes ago, toonkee said:

Agreed.

But I think in a national spiritual sense, maybe reparations are a part of all that, the acknowledgement of and atonement for the actions of the government. It may not solve the societal rift but it may be a necessary part of allowing that scar to heal.

Perhaps, I just don’t know. In any case, we haven’t come very far over the past 60-70 years. I don’t think a shrug of the shoulders and a “waddaya gonna do” approach is going to change anything. 

[East Coast Aztec]

35 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

What would you propose? I’ve previously indicated numerous times I believe the best solution is education. However, trying to implement it would be difficult. Provide monetary incentives for the better teachers to want to teach in the black communities. Provide sufficient resource officers for a safe learning environment. However, that still does not deal with the situations black kids face when they leave school, and how that impacts education. 

Im not sure if there are any black posters on this board. It would be enlightening to hear solutions they would propose. 

I think one of the first things is, while recognizing that black and minorities are affected worse by this, recognizing poverty is an American issue, and needs to be addressed as such.  Giving one subsect of a group will only breed contempt, and will in turn be more divisive.  We see it with backlash to affirmative action, brutality protests, and hate crime laws.  I think the harsh truth is that we cannot put income levels, home ownership and wealth accumulation at even levels across the spectrum.  It is what it is.  Instead work towards and invest in an environment void of discrimination at all levels and every angle, in the job market, the lending market, the courtrooms and police.  I know people hate "bootstrap" talk, but goal achievement is powerful and is something to pass down in the household.  Build up the opportunities to achieve and things will change.  A previously poor family with no history of working their way up the economic ladder need an environment to learn skills, access to network through a career path and be rewarded accordingly to be able to provide for the family, reduce stressors, and be an example of a positive figure, and it needs to be in numbers.

The age old "give a man a fish... teach a man to fish..." scenario.

[Naggsty Butler]

2 hours ago, Bob said:

What about mormons who got driven from their homes about four times?

I don't have any interest in reparations. Mormons are doing just fine. We didn't experience anywhere near the level of hardship that African Americans did and still do as a whole. Mormons were driven out of homes and off of land THEY owned, and while they were prevented in some cases from being able to vote, they never were disenfranchised as a whole.  African Americans couldn't own land, or vote, due to not being allow to be citizens, which Mormons were. There isn't an inherent disadvantage that prevents us from attending schools, getting jobs, or buying homes. Mormons can walk down the street without being harassed (for the most part). Mormons don't need reparations. 

[soupslam1]

43 minutes ago, Bob said:

When did this become a dirty word? geezs. What happened to personal responsibility. Every single person in this nation has an opportunity to go to college, get an education, get a good job, get married, benefit from said marriage by economies of scale, build wealth, and pass that wealth to the next generation.

I think what others are saying is it’s a lot harder for blacks than whites. Still it’s been proven many poor black people like poor white people have pulled themselves up by the bootstraps. However, many people that are poor are overcome with their dire circumstances and flat give up, or lack the tools to overcome their situations. It takes extraordinary individual motivation to rise above it, black, brown, yellow, red, or white. 

[SalinasSpartan]

1 hour ago, East Coast Aztec said:

I think one of the first things is, while recognizing that black and minorities are affected worse by this, recognizing poverty is an American issue, and needs to be addressed as such.  Giving one subsect of a group will only breed contempt, and will in turn be more divisive.  We see it with backlash to affirmative action, brutality protests, and hate crime laws.  I think the harsh truth is that we cannot put income levels, home ownership and wealth accumulation at even levels across the spectrum.  It is what it is.  Instead work towards and invest in an environment void of discrimination at all levels and every angle, in the job market, the lending market, the courtrooms and police.  I know people hate "bootstrap" talk, but goal achievement is powerful and is something to pass down in the household.  Build up the opportunities to achieve and things will change.  A previously poor family with no history of working their way up the economic ladder need an environment to learn skills, access to network through a career path and be rewarded accordingly to be able to provide for the family, reduce stressors, and be an example of a positive figure, and it needs to be in numbers.

The age old "give a man a fish... teach a man to fish..." scenario.

To use another analogy, I feel poverty is like a wildfire, while the plight of black people is that of victims of arson. In a sense you can say, “hey, regardless we are putting out fires, no need to differentiate between these let’s just try to put out all fires and that’s that.” I see the logic in a sense, but a wildfire and arson just aren’t the same thing. Likewise I don’t think it’s fair to lump in centuries of slavery and government mandated oppression with poverty in general. 

[East Coast Aztec]

9 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

To use another analogy, I feel poverty is like a wildfire, while the plight of black people is that of victims of arson. In a sense you can say, “hey, regardless we are putting out fires, no need to differentiate between these let’s just try to put out all fires and that’s that.” I see the logic in a sense, but a wildfire and arson just aren’t the same thing. Likewise I don’t think it’s fair to lump in centuries of slavery and government mandated oppression with poverty in general. 

I get what you are saying, but as of today, black people and white people and brown people and yellow people and red people are all the same in regards to poor and how to aid it.  If you just point out one to either vilify or help is to divide and single out.  

I am not lumping in what happened to get to the current scenarios.  But I also am not rack-and-stacking the "who got screwed over more" category.  What would aid poor black people can be the same thing that helps out any poor person.  The history isn't lost doing that.

[youngredbullfan]

3 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

And you do it well.

I am curious though, what the bureaucratic hurdles to thousands of academics coming together to run an online university on a pro bono basis for them. Accreditation and oversight would seem to be one issue. A larger one would be the people most likely to benefit from such an institution would already have a lot of the resources to take advantage of higher education, ie internet access, the time to concentrate on schooling etc...and the people that most desperately need help would have trouble accessing it. To say nothing of the threat it might pose to traditional black colleges which are vital institutions in keeping alive and vibrant a fundamental aspect of the American experience. 

I think the main issue is capital. Getting accredited is difficult, and would require a full-time staff that would have to be paid. I'm not sure where the funding is coming from for that.

The second issue is willingness. Good luck getting full-time professors to find the time to do pro-bono teaching work on that scale, or getting adjuncts or graduate students already overworked and paid essentially minimum wage to teach for free.

Finally, the niche for that is sort of filled already, minus the handing out of degrees. There's already plenty of free online college courses and adult education courses available out there right now, and you have really cheap community college classes. 

 

I think ultimately in order for something like that to work you'd have to have very generous private donors or government funding.

 

[818SUDSFan]

2 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

We have to come to grips with the fact that our society is being splintered with such a chasm between blacks and the rest of the country. It should be viewed as a collective best interest to improve the financial and communal wellbeing of black Americans. Otherwise, we will simply continue to see a greater gap in household wealth along with more broken homes, crime, addiction, distrust, and civil unrest.

I don’t know if reparations are the answer but we have to seek out solutions to improve the day to day lives of black Americans with better education, employment opportunities, household wealth, and more equity within the justice system.

Hammer hits nail head.

Just give them some money? Really? That's what some people think is all it would take to eliminate the chasm? 

Might help to have law enforcement agencies that don't have their head up their ass like that community in Georgia or wherever that wasn't even going to arrest that white father and his son who decided the African American jogger must have been a burglary suspect because he walked into a house under construction. Gee, bet the guy thought there was a lot of really valuable shit in there that he could stuff into the pockets of his sweats or lug on his back while he concluded his jog. Then the guiltless white guys decided some other likely white neighbor's video would exonerate them from blame for shooting him when what it did was prove he was obviously unarmed.

Here in L.A. we've had plenty of such encounters that tore the city apart. However, they're now very few and far between because of so many programs to educate cops about racial differences and the need to make that part of their mindset. Maybe rather than just giving finite taxpayer money to people whose ethnicity hasn't been treated very well we can start by creating such programs in other places.

[soupslam1]

36 minutes ago, SUDSFan said:

Hammer hits nail head.

Just give them some money? Really? That's what some people think is all it would take to eliminate the chasm? 

Might help to have law enforcement agencies that don't have their head up their ass like that community in Georgia or wherever that wasn't even going to arrest that white father and his son who decided the African American jogger must have been a burglary suspect because he walked into a house under construction. Gee, bet the guy thought there was a lot of really valuable shit in there that he could stuff into the pockets of his sweats or lug on his back while he concluded his jog. Then the guiltless white guys decided some other likely white neighbor's video would exonerate them from blame for shooting him when what it did was prove he was obviously unarmed.

Here in L.A. we've had plenty of such encounters that tore the city apart. However, they're now very few and far between because of so many programs to educate cops about racial differences and the need to make that part of their mindset. Maybe rather than just giving finite taxpayer money to people whose ethnicity hasn't been treated very well we can start by creating such programs in other places.

It’s a difficult complex issue and not easily solved. Maybe the best we can hope for are baby steps like you indicate above. One thing that bugs me is here we are a bunch of mostly white people commenting on the black condition with no input from black people. How do they feel and what reasonable steps are they agreeable to and willing to take? If there is no input and buy in from the black community it’s a moot point. 

The other thing is most things come down to money. How much money are taxpayers willing to pay? I suspect taxpayers would expect some gradual step by step measurement of improvement as funding is committed. Maybe some satellite programs could be instituted In a few communities to see if they work before committing larger funding. 

Last, my cynical view on this topic is nothing of any significance is going to change any time soon. 

[East Coast Aztec]

3 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

It’s a difficult complex issue and not easily solved. Maybe the best we can hope for are baby steps like you indicate above. One thing that bugs me is here we are a bunch of mostly white people commenting on the black condition with no input from black people. How do they feel and what reasonable steps are they agreeable to and willing to take? If there is no input and buy in from the black community it’s a moot point. 

The other thing is most things come down to money. How much money are taxpayers willing to pay? I suspect taxpayers would expect some gradual step by step measurement of improvement as funding is committed. Maybe some satellite programs could be instituted In a few communities to see if they work before committing larger funding. 

Last, my cynical view on this topic is nothing of any significance is going to change in our life time. 

Does a half-breed work?  

From my experience, if you spoke with a bunch of black people about how to rise their situation, it would sound the same as talking to any large group.  Some vocal folks who want waaaaaay too much, and blame someone for their problems.  Then you will get to people who will have their specific grievances, but want no more than a fair shot.  My family is a mix of fair shot, a little more than a fair shot (affirmative action), and a brother who is essentially a full-blown taker (no job, feels entitled for free housing and welfare).  Other friends are not that much different.  

It really is not much different than other races. Most just don't want to be given the short end of the stick because of a characteristic that shouldn't matter (race, sexual preference, gender), with some that have a ridiculous notion, and some who won't mind to benefit in an all-else equal scenario.  I think where the rub is in the communication and how people hear it.  It is hard for people to say, "history gave us a bad start", because the audience may not like it and argue the notion, or they don't want to admit that not everything is in their control.  

[Aslowhiteguy]

22 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

... One thing that bugs me is here we are a bunch of mostly white people commenting on the black condition with no input from black people. How do they feel and what reasonable steps are they agreeable to and willing to take? If there is no input and buy in from the black community it’s a moot point....

 

 Liberal ideas are so good, they need to be mandatory.  Facts, or even common sense, are not relevant.  It's only the agenda that matters.

Most of these SJW's barking for reparations, not only don't have a clue, they really don't give a shit.  They just bang the drum in a "look at me fashion, just to show off their progressiveness.

[SalinasSpartan]

3 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

It’s a difficult complex issue and not easily solved. Maybe the best we can hope for are baby steps like you indicate above. One thing that bugs me is here we are a bunch of mostly white people commenting on the black condition with no input from black people. How do they feel and what reasonable steps are they agreeable to and willing to take? If there is no input and buy in from the black community it’s a moot point. 

The other thing is most things come down to money. How much money are taxpayers willing to pay? I suspect taxpayers would expect some gradual step by step measurement of improvement as funding is committed. Maybe some satellite programs could be instituted In a few communities to see if they work before committing larger funding. 

Last, my cynical view on this topic is nothing of any significance is going to change any time soon. 

I’m Latino myself, but I didn’t know my biological dad growing up and my black stepfather and his family raised me as their own son/grandson/nephew from when I was 2 or 3. If you still want to just dismiss me as some Latino dude talking about black people, ok, but just know that my views on “the plight of black people” were mostly shaped by my family and their views.