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battle.borne

Cal State U's to remain closed through Fall Semester?

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I don't believe the worry is young people dying..it is young people as carriers..

The question eventually comes down to whether  the country is willing to take the hit..

At this point the idea is to mitigate.  It flattens the curve and gives drug makers a bit of time to work on treatments and a possible vaccine.

It should be noted that scientists have been seeking a vaccine for HIV for 35 years with no success. 

Chances are there will never be a vaccine for this.

Pretty much everyone in the world gets a cold.  My guess is eventually everybody is getting this too.

Lots of people will die.  The world will likely suffer a semi permanent depression.  There are no easy answers.

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Del Scorcho said:

I do prefer California and Oregon's approach. Clearly they have made mistakes as has anyone leading citizens and dealing with the unknown. Many have praised CA Gov. Newsom reaction to the pandemic. I think he's done a remarkable job and has saved/prolonged lives.  Locking down and shutting down the economy in advance can easily be shortened if things improve.  Its preferable to opening up too fast, and then needing to shut it down again IMO.

I also think Utah's Govt. Herbert has done an excellent job. I believe Utah leads the country in per-capita testing. Credit to Utah's Govt. He's also made mistakes. The state opting to buy $800k worth of a snake oil drug at a steep markup was a severe blunder. Fortunately they were able to back out of that transaction.

No doubt small businesses are getting screwed everywhere. CA needs to loosen those restrictions, provided they follow CDC's guidelines.  I don't believe the same policy can be applied to LA and SF as it does to rural areas of California, but that's true everywhere. Its a complicated problem. If barbershops suddenly are allowed to open in Victorville, you'd have a flood of people from LA County driving to Victorville for haircuts and you've immediately exacerbated the problem. 

Whenever you see news footage of families that have lost everything in a flood, hurricane or tornado they nearly always are grateful that their lives were spared and they have each other. You never hear a father exclaim, "damnit if I'd only let go of little Jimmy maybe I could have saved my jet ski."

 

How can you prefer an approach that shuts down in rolling 3-month increments? (essentially an attempt to read tea leaves, rather than rely on testing / actual cases in making decisions)?   

Makes little sense in my opinion.  I'd prefer evaluating on a 2-week rolling basis.  I'd prefer to use science in making decisions, rather than making guesses (which is what they are doing with their 3-month plan in California and Oregon).  Make a decision on what the science shows, and if there is indeed an actual flare up outbreak (not on if we are scared that there could be one).

 

Utah seems to be doing incredibly well.  There have been 75 total deaths in Utah related to the virus.  in a State of 3 million people. Shutting down for 75 deaths is kind of odd....

I don't even think Utah buying a drug was a blunder, like you are saying....he was acting on information that is changing daily, and was trying to be prepared (the drug in question is still being debated).  If it was a "miracle" drug, and they couldn't get it, he'd be criticized for not acting....  So, we need to give deference to them on these things.

 

We have to weigh the threat of this disease, against other factors, like massive job loss.  75 deaths in Utah is extremely small.   Utah isn't as affected for whatever reason. 

 

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24 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

The point being that we are responding to this virus as if it's some sort of existential threat.  It manifestly isn't that and as data are gathered over time the picture becomes clearer on that score.  What we know now is vastly different that what we knew then. We now know who is vulnerable and what is successful in protecting them. Taking your movie theater example; if you're seventy with a bad heart or COPD you shouldn't attend. If you pack a movie theater with an audience of people under the age of forty who are otherwise healthy there is a vanishingly small potential for anyone becoming anything other moderately ill from the experience.  In a free society, it should be left to the individual to assess risk and make the decision that they feel is best for them.  Given that, what right does the state have to continue policies that are putting people out of work and creating an actual, very real existential threat; poverty, despair, and societal instability. 

 

On the personal freedom side, I don't really see how that translates for public universities sponsoring sports. Telling a private business owner that they can't open/patrons they can't engage in commerce in the name of public health/safety is it's own ball of wax, but I don't see how the Cal State system deciding on it's own to go virtual in the fall is a shot at individual liberty. It seems like it's a federalist system of government/representative republic working properly. People don't have to like the decision, but how is not the CSU system's to make? If CA and WY arrive at different conclusions based on different factors and priorities, the system is working as it should.

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10 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

 

How can you prefer an approach that shuts down in rolling 3-month increments? (essentially an attempt to read tea leaves, rather than rely on testing / actual cases in making decisions)?   

Makes little sense in my opinion.  I'd prefer evaluating on a 2-week rolling basis.  I'd prefer to use science in making decisions, rather than making guesses (which is what they are doing with their 3-month plan in California and Oregon).  Make a decision on what the science shows, and if there is indeed an actual flare up outbreak (not on if we are scared that there could be one).

 

Utah seems to be doing incredibly well.  There have been 75 total deaths in Utah related to the virus.  in a State of 3 million people. Shutting down for 75 deaths is kind of odd....

I don't even think Utah buying a drug was a blunder, like you are saying....he was acting on information that is changing daily, and was trying to be prepared (the drug in question is still being debated).  If it was a "miracle" drug, and they couldn't get it, he'd be criticized for not acting....  So, we need to give deference to them on these things.

 

We have to weigh the threat of this disease, against other factors, like massive job loss.  75 deaths in Utah is extremely small.   Utah isn't as affected for whatever reason. 

 

Probably several reasons.

Relatively young

Relatively healthy

Relatively low density population

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19 hours ago, battle.borne said:

Is it possible fall sports continue but they host no home games/matches? 

If these sbhools are not allowing students to gather in the classroom to learn they sure as heck are not going to allowing them to gather to travel and participate in sports.  

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2 hours ago, Rambouche said:

On the personal freedom side, I don't really see how that translates for public universities sponsoring sports. Telling a private business owner that they can't open/patrons they can't engage in commerce in the name of public health/safety is it's own ball of wax, but I don't see how the Cal State system deciding on it's own to go virtual in the fall is a shot at individual liberty. It seems like it's a federalist system of government/representative republic working properly. People don't have to like the decision, but how is not the CSU system's to make? If CA and WY arrive at different conclusions based on different factors and priorities, the system is working as it should.

We agree on that. I read and posted another article earlier in this thread that indicates the CSU policy isn't as draconian as the headlines are portraying it.  Bottom line, the policy is intended to give the schools room to adjust as required by preparing for an entirely virtual environment. classes may be virtual but labs, as an example will be held in person as necessary

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25 minutes ago, NorthWestCowboy said:

If these sbhools are not allowing students to gather in the classroom to learn they sure as heck are not going to allowing them to gather to travel and participate in sports.  

Will they have their scholarships cancelled?

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1 hour ago, #1Stunner said:

 

How can you prefer an approach that shuts down in rolling 3-month increments? (essentially an attempt to read tea leaves, rather than rely on testing / actual cases in making decisions)?   

Makes little sense in my opinion.  I'd prefer evaluating on a 2-week rolling basis.  I'd prefer to use science in making decisions, rather than making guesses (which is what they are doing with their 3-month plan in California and Oregon).  Make a decision on what the science shows, and if there is indeed an actual flare up outbreak (not on if we are scared that there could be one).

 

Utah seems to be doing incredibly well.  There have been 75 total deaths in Utah related to the virus.  in a State of 3 million people. Shutting down for 75 deaths is kind of odd....

I don't even think Utah buying a drug was a blunder, like you are saying....he was acting on information that is changing daily, and was trying to be prepared (the drug in question is still being debated).  If it was a "miracle" drug, and they couldn't get it, he'd be criticized for not acting....  So, we need to give deference to them on these things.

 

We have to weigh the threat of this disease, against other factors, like massive job loss.  75 deaths in Utah is extremely small.   Utah isn't as affected for whatever reason. 

 

California isn’t doing things in 3 month increments. 

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16 hours ago, tommypm said:

Cal States and UC’s will lose so many students due to this. As a Fresno State alum with kids currently enrolled or enrolling at UCSB and Suds, what I’m hearing kids say is depressing. So many incoming freshman already looking to jump ship and apply at schools in states that give CA residents discounted rates.  
 

they are trying to maintain the same tuition here in Ca as if they were taking in person classes. In an attempt to keep the students from taking CC classes or gap years to avoid the costs, they are mentioning removing any deferment options. 
 

Sad state these students are in. Especially at UCSB where they were asked to leave IV but being forced to continue paying rent. Based on how things work around these colleges in CA, Most have already put down non refundable deposits on their fall semester living quarters. 
 

Athletes will leave in droves if this happens. Nothing to stop them and the NCAA will have to allow them to transfer. 

 

FWIW, the UCs operate under the quarter system and -  except for Berkeley and Merced - all start fall instuction at the end of September vs the CSUs which begin their fall semesters in August.

That extra month might (or might not) make a difference in whether or not basketball is played.

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2 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

 

How can you prefer an approach that shuts down in rolling 3-month increments? (essentially an attempt to read tea leaves, rather than rely on testing / actual cases in making decisions)?   

Makes little sense in my opinion.  I'd prefer evaluating on a 2-week rolling basis.  I'd prefer to use science in making decisions, rather than making guesses (which is what they are doing with their 3-month plan in California and Oregon).  Make a decision on what the science shows, and if there is indeed an actual flare up outbreak (not on if we are scared that there could be one).

 

Utah seems to be doing incredibly well.  There have been 75 total deaths in Utah related to the virus.  in a State of 3 million people. Shutting down for 75 deaths is kind of odd....

I don't even think Utah buying a drug was a blunder, like you are saying....he was acting on information that is changing daily, and was trying to be prepared (the drug in question is still being debated).  If it was a "miracle" drug, and they couldn't get it, he'd be criticized for not acting....  So, we need to give deference to them on these things.

 

We have to weigh the threat of this disease, against other factors, like massive job loss.  75 deaths in Utah is extremely small.   Utah isn't as affected for whatever reason. 

I'll admit, I'm looking at this from my own selfish interest. It's human nature.  

without going into too much unnecessary detail, I work in health care. My experience is slanted heavily by what I encounter at work. My daughter also works in health care (directly with patients) which is an added level of stress and concern for me personally. additionally, some of you know my spouses health situation. she received two new lungs back in 2012. If you know anything about organ transplants you know if she caught this virus she'd be in enormous trouble. We've already come too close a couple of times with pneumonia. 

we all have our own unique perspective. If I were still in my 20's and had yet to have had the life experiences I've had, I'd undoubtedly feel differently. If I owned a small business that would clearly give me a different vantage point. I can respect that people are viewing this pandemic based on their own self interest and what should be done. I am selfishly doing the same. There are no right answers only best guesses at this point.

 

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25 minutes ago, Del Scorcho said:

I'll admit, I'm looking at this from my own selfish interest. It's human nature.  

without going into too much unnecessary detail, I work in health care. My experience is slanted heavily by what I encounter at work. My daughter also works in health care (directly with patients) which is an added level of stress and concern for me personally. additionally, some of you know my spouses health situation. she received two new lungs back in 2012. If you know anything about organ transplants you know if she caught this virus she'd be in enormous trouble. We've already come too close a couple of times with pneumonia. 

we all have our own unique perspective. If I were still in my 20's and had yet to have had the life experiences I've had, I'd undoubtedly feel differently. If I owned a small business that would clearly give me a different vantage point. I can respect that people are viewing this pandemic based on their own self interest and what should be done. I am selfishly doing the same. There are no right answers only best guesses at this point.

 

Very level-headed post that I agree with. We have no mental models in place for how to think about pandemics and their economic and societal consequences. People have tried to compare this with the 08-09 recession. Not the same. Ditto with comparing this to Spanish flu. Step one is to mitigate risk best we can while not burning down the economy which will lead to (if it hasn't already) lead to thousands of deaths. The other big problem is we don't seem to have reliable data for numbers of cases, deaths and hospitalizations related to COVID. We are all arguing without having all the facts. One fact: I have a massive package. 

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Pac-12 issues statement in wake of Cal State System announcement yesterday: ""The Pac-12 and our member universities will make our own determinations on when our student-athletes can return to play and when and how campuses will reopen to students." https://bit.ly/3dITJmI
 
 

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11 minutes ago, RSF said:
Pac-12 issues statement in wake of Cal State System announcement yesterday: ""The Pac-12 and our member universities will make our own determinations on when our student-athletes can return to play and when and how campuses will reopen to students." https://bit.ly/3dITJmI
 
 

 

Big West school officials "are proceeding with plans for fall athletic competition," conference commissioner Dennis Farrell said in a statement. "We will continue to assess whether the return of athletic competition in the fall will be appropriate.”

 

If the Cal States decide to sit out this fall - including the three here - perhaps the non-pac UCs can fill in the void for the MWC?  :fishing:

 

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Aztecs remain committed to playing fall sports, despite most classes online

San Diego State remains committed to fielding fall sports, despite an announcement Tuesday that most fall classes will be conducted online in the 23-school California State University system.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/college/story/2020-05-12/san-diego-state-aztecs-fall-sports-ccaa-cancels-cal-state-san-marcos

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Boise State is fully intending to have classes on campus this Fall. Look for an announcement in the next couple days. 

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4 hours ago, Del Scorcho said:

I do prefer California and Oregon's approach. Clearly they have made mistakes as has anyone leading citizens and dealing with the unknown. Many have praised CA Gov. Newsom reaction to the pandemic. I think he's done a remarkable job and has saved/prolonged lives.  Locking down and shutting down the economy in advance can easily be shortened if things improve.  Its preferable to opening up too fast, and then needing to shut it down again IMO.

I also think Utah's Govt. Herbert has done an excellent job. I believe Utah leads the country in per-capita testing. Credit to Utah's Govt. He's also made mistakes. The state opting to buy $800k worth of a snake oil drug at a steep markup was a severe blunder. Fortunately they were able to back out of that transaction.

No doubt small businesses are getting screwed everywhere. CA needs to loosen those restrictions, provided they follow CDC's guidelines.  I don't believe the same policy can be applied to LA and SF as it does to rural areas of California, but that's true everywhere. Its a complicated problem. If barbershops suddenly are allowed to open in Victorville, you'd have a flood of people from LA County driving to Victorville for haircuts and you've immediately exacerbated the problem. 

Whenever you see news footage of families that have lost everything in a flood, hurricane or tornado they nearly always are grateful that their lives were spared and they have each other. You never hear a father exclaim, "damnit if I'd only let go of little Jimmy maybe I could have saved my jet ski."

My ex-husband and youngest daughter, who was about 10 at the time, were on an inflatable kayak aka duckie when we were floating the Salmon River.  They hit the Time Zone rapid and were completely thrown off the duckie into the water.  There was one of the large rafts coming down right after them, my daughter was in the perfect position to be sucked under the big raft and probably would have drowned.  She was smart, she kicked off the rocks, went in front of the raft by a "c" hair and the people were able to pull her into the raft on the opposite side.  Even the people in that boat thought she was going to be killed & couldn't believe how smart she was for kicking off the rocks like that.  Our raft had gone first, so I got to watch in horror, the high possibility of my daughter being killed.  What was my STUPID ex doing??? Sure wasn't trying to help his daughter, he was trying to get the paddles.  :loser:

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