RSF Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, Bob said: Do you understand how herd immunity works? Do you? You need an estimated 70% of the population to achieve it. 2 sure ways - a vaccine (which we dont have) or getting a lot of freaking sick people. And as of right now nobody's sure what level of immunity recovered people even have. I think for a lot of people its not the numbers that scare them - its the unknown factors at play. As NV alluded to (and you apparently ignored), staying shut down is increasingly unworkable. But throwing the doors open and going back to January isnt the answer either. Until we have a vaccine (whenever that is), the play lies somewhere in between. https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/is-herd-immunity-our-best-weapon-against-covid-19 In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Bob said: What's better, the owner of a theater business making some money or no money? A restaurant owner making some money or no money? A barber making some money or no money. A nail salon making some money or no money. Guess we'd better just stay closed forever. Dumb. If people are out it's going to make a hypothetical second wave worse? What are you talking about. Do you understand how herd immunity works? I am friends with the guy who owns about half the clubs in downtown Boise. He said he is in a better spot financially with the reduced overhead staying closed than he would be if he opened up his clubs and people did not show up. Getting "some" business is not the same thing as making "some" profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 On 5/13/2020 at 1:40 PM, battle.borne said: "Open up the economy. Don't open it up. Whatever. We're screwed regardless. There are no good answers." This is not the mindset of a healthy person. No, it is realistic. You idea that our best and brightest in the CDC and elsewhere can not possibly know or forecast the future toll of the virus is the real joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiCountryCowboy Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 1 hour ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: I am friends with the guy who owns about half the clubs in downtown Boise. He said he is in a better spot financially with the reduced overhead staying closed than he would be if he opened up his clubs and people did not show up. Getting "some" business is not the same thing as making "some" profit. Great, then he can just stay closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard Delecto Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Bore-again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowl Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Bob said: That doesn't make sense. If he's "in a a better spot financially" by not being open then he didn't have a profitable business in the first place. I'm sure his employees that he pay are not in a better spot. Well, maybe some are because of unemployment/Trump Bucks, but it's costing that nation trillions to do it. Not enough volume to cover fixed costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevadaFan Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Bob said: That doesn't make sense. If he's "in a a better spot financially" by not being open then he didn't have a profitable business in the first place. I'm sure his employees that he pay are not in a better spot. Well, maybe some are because of unemployment/Trump Bucks, but it's costing that nation trillions to do it. PSB loans or whatever they are called. It’s free money. Remember when Obama was skewered for bailing out private business that actually had to pay the money back? The Republican Party doesn’t care anymore, and that’s the only reason it was worth a crap in the first place. We are in a situation where business gets free money and pays less tax than at any time in the country’s history. Trumptard’s don’t-tax-but-still-spend policy didn’t work BEFORE the pandemic. But now??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renoskier Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Fowl said: Not enough volume to cover fixed costs That doesn't make sense because his "fixed" cost are the same whether he's open or not. No, what he's saying is that there wouldn't be enough volume to cover his increased variable cost (labor, utilities, food, etc.). Right now, he's only losing his fixed cost, being "open" without enough business would lead to even larger loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator 82 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle.borne Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 16 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: No, it is realistic. You idea that our best and brightest in the CDC and elsewhere can not possibly know or forecast the future toll of the virus is the real joke. LOL best and the brightest... the best and the brightest captured by Big Pharma interests "You pukin morons are just plain too dumb." -bluerules008 aka jibscout aka Hal "Mosquito Man" Newman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevadaFan Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 11 hours ago, battle.borne said: LOL best and the brightest... the best and the brightest captured by Big Pharma interests Oh dear god. You’re a conspiracy guy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowl Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 5/15/2020 at 10:49 AM, renoskier said: That doesn't make sense because his "fixed" cost are the same whether he's open or not. No, what he's saying is that there wouldn't be enough volume to cover his increased variable cost (labor, utilities, food, etc.). Right now, he's only losing his fixed cost, being "open" without enough business would lead to even larger loses. labor and utilities are not variable costs (i.e. they don't vary with revenue/volumes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renoskier Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Fowl said: labor and utilities are not variable costs (i.e. they don't vary with revenue/volumes) Sorry fowl but you have it wrong. Labor and utilities are absolutely variable. When you're busy (higher volume/revenue), you add more help or more hours for your current employees. And the more hours your business is open, the higher the utility expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowl Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Utilities and labor are not variable. On what planet does a quick service restaurant or casual dining restaurant know how many customers it will have each day? They staff according their expected demand and once those employees clock in you can’t unpay them if no customers show up. Same for utilities - if youre open the lights are on and utilities are charging you for the electricity consumed for all of the refrigerators and freezers whether anyone walks through the front door. this is the problem with your line of thinking - the business has to be open (and incurring fixed costs in the form of labor and utilities) if they are to generate a dime of revenue. They know their costs but not their revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalinasSpartan Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 On 5/15/2020 at 10:52 AM, Gator 82 said: Did more Americans die in combat in 1942 or from Covid-19 in 2020? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 7:42 PM, HiCountryCowboy said: Great, then he can just stay closed. Cool. I agree. We live in a free country. The idea though that all this businesses are hurting so much more than they would if everything is opened is simply false. If people are not spending money, opening up does not help the economy in any way. Opening up is one thing. Getting people to go out again in significant numbers is another. We may see a good summer, with people being pent up and the hot conditions playing a part in slowing the spread. But these small business will be in a world of hurt, again, come winter. Government mandates or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 On 5/15/2020 at 10:49 AM, renoskier said: That doesn't make sense because his "fixed" cost are the same whether he's open or not. No, what he's saying is that there wouldn't be enough volume to cover his increased variable cost (labor, utilities, food, etc.). Right now, he's only losing his fixed cost, being "open" without enough business would lead to even larger loses. This. He also played a large roll in forcing the Boise shut down...by threatening that he would refuse to close. In a Machiavellian move to force a shut down to save him money, then laughed to the press about how he manipulated it to get his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrediggerPoke Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Oregon Judge finds that the Order issued by Oregon's Governor exceeds executive authority: https://news.yahoo.com/judge-tosses-coronavirus-restrictions-oregon-201711786.html . Should come as no surprise to those with legal understanding and I'd expect to see similar rulings from judges in other states. Decision stayed pending review of Oregon Supreme Court: https://www.aol.com/oregon-supreme-court-reinstates-governor-114328803.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe from WY Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, OrediggerPoke said: Oregon Judge finds that the Order issued by Oregon's Governor exceeds executive authority: https://news.yahoo.com/judge-tosses-coronavirus-restrictions-oregon-201711786.html Should come as no surprise to those with legal understanding and I'd expect to see similar rulings from judges in other states. You're right. Also, you're right in the 2nd part there too, there's going to be a wave of these across the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrediggerPoke Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Just now, Joe from WY said: You're right. Also, you're right in the 2nd part there too, there's going to be a wave of these across the US. It is good to see groups out there challenging these orders' constitutionality and the executive branches gone wild in asserting authority that they don't have...even if I don't agree with the viewpoints of all of these groups, we can agree that preserving Constitutional protections and separation of powers is of the utmost importance.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...