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thelawlorfaithful

DOJ drops case against General Michael Flynn

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34 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

or...

0a676de2cb5cb0648d0dfb47321bcc0f.jpg

Great book.  Bullies always messing things up, even on a remote island with no adults around.  

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30 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

It's not unequivocally the case. The AG essentially has just functioned as the defense attorney for the president's friend. As Hero of the Universe Ken White has stated, it's transparently corrupt and would have failed if the defense had made the same argument (and will fail in the future when defense attorneys like White make it to the SAME Justice Department). Prosecutorial reform does not mean that the prosecution should function as the defense, because that will carry itself out as it did here - selectively, and to support the interests of the prosecutor or his boss. Is there an argument that this is ultimately good on balance because the outcome was one less crime prosecuted that ultimately didn't really harm anyone? Sure. You're making it. But that argument doesn't care anything about process... it's entirely ends based. And I always took you as a fan of process. 

It would have failed because the prosecution as a rule presents itself as an honest actor that moves based on facts of a crime it can prove. Of course a defense attorney would fail making this argument because everyone involved in our system, judge, jury, executioners; take this at face value as part of the process. That’s the only reason the entire thing doesn’t devolve into adjunct kangaroo military tribunals enforcer by the army. The prosecution recognizes the defendant has rights and should be presumed innocent, and therefore in order to convince everyone involved they present themselves as acting entirely on the up and up. I don’t think popehat is saying anything profound here, because the premise is something we all accept when the government acts in good faith.

The prosecution is admitting it didn’t act on the up and up. The facts that have come to light in the past few weeks clearly show that they weren’t at the time. And the surrounding facts relevant to the case that have been revealed in the past few years show that the FBI were almost never acting in good faith. The process only matters so long as people believe that they were, and they were not.

Michael Flynn is a grown up. He plead guilty (twice) to something he might have done, and if everyone was acting even reasonably in good faith should have been punished for it. But almost everyone wasn’t. The fact that this leaves a lot of egg on the faces of those at the FBI, Comey and his cohort, those in media that breathlessly pushed (and still push) the narrative, down to some people on this board; is completely besides the point. Because the prosecution was acting so reprehensibly underhanded in this instance, it didn’t matter even when the President’s friend had a defense attorney. Now it is no longer doing so, and that matters more than any political benefit or harm anyone incurs.

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46 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Best analysis I've seen on why General Flynn got screwed and this investigation was corrupt.

Comments from Author and Reporter for Rolling Stone, Matt Taibbi (who is not a Republican).

 

 

Thanks for that. I've been trying to spend less time on this forum and don't want to bother reading a bunch of hooey about Flynn because he's really not worth it. So because I've always thought highly of Matt Tiabi, I trust his summary of what happened.

I'll say this. What the FBI apparently did with Flynn is consistent with what I saw from the only two agents I've encountered during my career as I was tasked with reviewing some of their work along with several others. One was brand spanking new just out of the academy if that's what they call it and the other had recently retired. The sliminess of the first one I just wrote off as the guy being wet behind the ears. However, the second guy was just as bad. I had naively thought that FBI agents were the pinnacle of law enforcement and in each situation their role was to conduct an objective investigation of a person but in each case, the transcript of their interview came off as more like a Spanish inquisition. However, that said, Flynn is still a scumbag in my book. We know for a fact he was paid for speaking at a Kremlin dinner at which he kissed Putin's ass and that he lied to VP Pence and however despicable Hillary might be, his leading "lock her up" chants about that former secretary of state, another cabinet position, was beyond the pale.

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11 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

I know who ISN'T invited on my island.

Awesome. I don't like islands anyway.

But it is a nice place for people that like to keep their heads buried in the sand. 

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34 minutes ago, toonkee said:

I do not have any sincere depth of knowledge on this case but I remember such tidbits as a judge saying he sold the country out, stuff like that.  What was that all about even if the FBI framed him on a process crime?

The FBI’s Trump campaign collision with the Russians investigation was fizzling out. On the day they thought about closing the file on Flynn, it was suggested in Peter Strozk’s notes that management wanted instead to interview Flynn in the hopes of getting him to commit perjury. The notes of the interview conflict, with one agent saying he’s honest about a conversation with the Russian ambassador, while the other doesn’t. The FBI did not act on this until Comey was fired, and McCabe opened a criminal investigation into Trump obstruction the next day. Mueller takes over a week later and that is what he ultimately investigates.

It became clear a crime didn’t happen so they created one to keep an investigation going based on the Logan Act, an arcane law never successfully prosecuted, that if it were everyone believes would be struck down by the courts. There is also some foreign agent stuff with Flynn and his son that the DOJ rarely ever put the screws to anyone for until Mueller comes along, so that’s where a lot of the selling out the country comes from.

Tl;dr the Taibbi clip is a pretty good synopsis.

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16 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

Awesome. I don't like islands anyway.

But it is a nice place for people that like to keep their heads buried in the sand. 

Hey, if that's what you think, I say have at it. 

I will say, that the people I was joking with are specifically the posters who don't bury their head in the sand, even if they don't always agree with me. They're just the kind of people who see the whole picture. 

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9 minutes ago, Maynard Delecto said:

The FBI and CIA must be shut down.

There doesn’t appear to be much over sight of either agency, or the DOJ. Moles should be planted in those agencies and report to the IG, but they would likely be assassinated. 

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46 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Ken White > Matt Taibbi every day of the week.

Honestly, don't know who that is. 

Was he contradicting Matt Taibbi, calling him out on his conclusions?

 

EDIT:  He is the Pope Hat guy?

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1 hour ago, Jackrabbit said:

Apparently good enough to nick a nerve.

I mean most people react negatively to "you won't even defend your family"

1 hour ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Happy facepalmed me. I imagine at this minute there is a 9% chance he is in the third paragraph of a well reasoned, airtight post as to how we couldn’t support the infrastructure needed to maintain a golf course and the reason he demands it be it be a temperate rainforest island is because our 21st century skills would leave us dead of exposure or starvation otherwise.

It is the 91%. It's NVgiant inviting us, there is a 100% chance of there being a golf course, a baseball park, and the equipment to make black butte porter for everyone. 

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1 hour ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Happy facepalmed me. I imagine at this minute there is a 9% chance he is in the third paragraph of a well reasoned, airtight post as to how we couldn’t support the infrastructure needed to maintain a golf course and the reason he demands it be it be a temperate rainforest island is because our 21st century skills would leave us dead of exposure or starvation otherwise.

Also I want a temperate rainforest because I like huckleberries and blackberries and it means there might be a salmon run on the island

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1 minute ago, happycamper said:

I mean most people react negatively to "you won't even defend your family"

It is the 91%. It's NVgiant inviting us, there is a 100% chance of there being a golf course, a baseball park, and the equipment to make black butte porter for everyone. 

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8 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

Honestly, don't know who that is. 

Was he contradicting Matt Taibbi, calling him out on his conclusions?

 

EDIT:  He is the Pope Hat guy?

Yea ken white is Pope hat. I dont mind tahini, though he has his own point of view. But ken white has been one of the best voices in all the trump stuff... smart, straight arrow, informed. 

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I love how Giant just wants to get away from the world, happy imagines an idyllic vacation, halfman immediately wants to become proto-Vikings, and Rocker suspects we’ll fall into warring chaos quickly. On brand Mwcboarding.

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19 minutes ago, happycamper said:

It is the 91%. It's NVgiant inviting us, there is a 100% chance of there being a golf course, a baseball park, and the equipment to make black butte porter for everyone. 

As god intended.

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32 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Hey, if that's what you think, I say have at it. 

I will say, that the people I was joking with are specifically the posters who don't bury their head in the sand, even if they don't always agree with me. They're just the kind of people who see the whole picture. 

I wasn't talking about them, I was talking about you. When you tell tell Toonkee, who is asking for information, to not get into that cesspool that bothers me. Toonkee should want to know why his government acted the way they did. So should you. So should everyone. We ALL have a responsibility to be good citizens and hold our elected representatives, law enforcement and government agencies to account. When we don't we get the system we have now. It's not personal. We've given up far too many of our rights to government. It's past time to hold them to account. In both parties and all local, state and federal agencies. 

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1 minute ago, Rebelbacker said:

I wasn't talking about them, I was talking about you. When you tell tell Toonkee, who is asking for information, to not get into that cesspool that bothers me. Toonkee should want to know why his government acted the way they did. So should you. So should everyone. We ALL have a responsibility to be good citizens and hold our elected representatives, law enforcement and government agencies to account. When we don't we get the system we have now. It's not personal. We've given up far too many of our rights to government. It's past time to hold them to account. In both parties and all local, state and federal agencies. 

I've had enough of Flynn and the FBI. +++++ them all. I'm plenty informed. But I was attempting to have fun in a thread about an issue where there are no heroes. But whatever. Whether it's this, or the FBI entrapping a kid here in Oregon to prove he's a muslim "terrorist," I have to admit I have gone numb to it all. I know you're a true believer when it suits your point of view, so I don't begrudge you that.

All I know is that when trust of everything has eroded it's time to set the village on fire and move on. I've got an island to run.

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34 minutes ago, happycamper said:

I mean most people react negatively to "you won't even defend your family"

It is the 91%. It's NVgiant inviting us, there is a 100% chance of there being a golf course, a baseball park, and the equipment to make black butte porter for everyone. 

I would love to kick all your guy's asses in golf one day.

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Just now, toonkee said:

I would love to kick all your guy's asses in golf one day.

You would annihilate me at golf but I would gladly take a leisurely walk with you, drinking a nice pilsner, while occasionally hoeing some sod with an expensive ass tool

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