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Akkula

He defunded the WHO in the middle of a Pandemic!?!

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10 hours ago, Akkula said:

@halfmanhalfbronco, I find it ironic that supporters of the liar in chief are so concerned about holding someone accountable for lying.  However, I also question the presupposition based on the article that I posted that any supposed "lie" by the WHO should have even changed US policy anyway.  If we were truly "hand in glove" with the WHO the way the WAPO article suggests then we would not have been reliant on the public released information...in fact we would have been involved in CRAFTING those statements.  If we had 15 people working on the inside of the WHO we could have taken whatever information we wanted from Taiwain or whomever and interpreted using our own intelligence however we wanted to.  

The more likely scenario is that we had the information and KNEW all the same things the WHO knew but we either a) were too incompetent to do anything or recognize the situation or b) we thought it would disrupt the dear leader's masterful stock market and economy so it was minimized.  Frankly either scenario is pretty likely as we know there was an active campaign by the Trump administration to minimize the virus but we also know they value subservience over competence.  

This whole WHO thing is just an attempt to blame shift.

Hell, that's nothing.  Have you heard that Trump colluded with Russia?!?

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11 hours ago, Akkula said:

@halfmanhalfbronco, I find it ironic that supporters of the liar in chief are so concerned about holding someone accountable for lying.  However, I also question the presupposition based on the article that I posted that any supposed "lie" by the WHO should have even changed US policy anyway.  If we were truly "hand in glove" with the WHO the way the WAPO article suggests then we would not have been reliant on the public released information...in fact we would have been involved in CRAFTING those statements.  If we had 15 people working on the inside of the WHO we could have taken whatever information we wanted from Taiwain or whomever and interpreted using our own intelligence however we wanted to.  

The more likely scenario is that we had the information and KNEW all the same things the WHO knew but we either a) were too incompetent to do anything or recognize the situation or b) we thought it would disrupt the dear leader's masterful stock market and economy so it was minimized.  Frankly either scenario is pretty likely as we know there was an active campaign by the Trump administration to minimize the virus but we also know they value subservience over competence.  

This whole WHO thing is just an attempt to blame shift.

There is not a supposed lie by the WHO.  There is factual and clear evidence supporting a lie.  Get that through your head right now.  It is well documented and not up for debate.

Look at the WHO board, no we would not have been responsible for crafting their statements, China would have been.  The board is mostly comprised by Chinese appointees.    The USA was not the only Western country with resources working with the WHO.  However we were all going off the the information they provided.   If you think the US participants in the WHO actions had more access than the rest of the world to incoming communication than the other countries communicating with the WHO you are smoking crack.  These were heavily regulated by China.  Why is this so hard for you to understand.  The WHO is still to this day advocating polices that are in direct disagreement with our own CDC.  They +++++ed up.  They were the global leaders on the response.  Not the USA, not Italy, the WHO.

 

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Never in a million years would I have thought honesty was so important to Trumpists.    Telling the truth is the hill they are fighting on with the guy they elected with his record of the ability to tell the truth.   

I would have stuck with going after Biden’s son 🤷‍♂️ 

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8 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

There is not a supposed lie by the WHO.  There is factual and clear evidence supporting a lie.  Get that through your head right now.  It is well documented and not up for debate.

Look at the WHO board, no we would not have been responsible for crafting their statements, China would have been.  The board is mostly comprised by Chinese appointees.    The USA was not the only Western country with resources working with the WHO.  However we were all going off the the information they provided.   If you think the US participants in the WHO actions had more access than the rest of the world to incoming communication than the other countries communicating with the WHO you are smoking crack.  These were heavily regulated by China.  Why is this so hard for you to understand.  The WHO is still to this day advocating polices that are in direct disagreement with our own CDC.  They +++++ed up.  They were the global leaders on the response.  Not the USA, not Italy, the WHO.

 

So in your version of events the WHO is completely controlled and manipulated by its 16th largest contributor and Donald Trump was "lied" to and that was the reason he failed to get us prepared?  The USA who contributes 15% of the total budget and what appears to be 10X the amount the Chinese are giving each year is completely at the mercy of WHO's public statements.  The 15+ Trump officials who were involved directly in the Wuhan outbreak were duped by this Chinese controlled organization and this caused us to mis-respond to the crisis.  

I think the more likely scenario is that those 15+ USA scientists embedded hand in glove with the WHO were trying desperately to get Trump's attention but since he has no ability to absorb printed information or daily briefings and/or didn't care left us unprepared.  He also thought he could control the reality by using alternative facts just as he has responded to every crisis during his presidency.  He did not want to jeopardize the only bright spot for his reelection in the stock market and economy so he "spun" the virus as not a big deal.  Unfortunately the virus didn't allow him to invent a reality and it just ignored those attempts and proceeded to infect.  Trump now looks woefully unprepared and is looking for scapegoats and so he and his followers latch onto the WHO as the scapegoat.

But hey, why don't you work on the next conspiracy theory that Bill Gates and the Rotary Club are part of the freemasons and trying to inject virus mind control vaccines into people or something!   

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/who-funds-world-health-organization-un-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-trump/

Top 20 contributors to the Programme budget 2018 (US$ thousands)

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3 hours ago, Akkula said:

So in your version of events the WHO is completely controlled and manipulated by its 16th largest contributor and Donald Trump was "lied" to and that was the reason he failed to get us prepared?  The USA who contributes 15% of the total budget and what appears to be 10X the amount the Chinese are giving each year is completely at the mercy of WHO's public statements.  The 15+ Trump officials who were involved directly in the Wuhan outbreak were duped by this Chinese controlled organization and this caused us to mis-respond to the crisis.  

I think the more likely scenario is that those 15+ USA scientists embedded hand in glove with the WHO were trying desperately to get Trump's attention but since he has no ability to absorb printed information or daily briefings and/or didn't care left us unprepared.  He also thought he could control the reality by using alternative facts just as he has responded to every crisis during his presidency.  He did not want to jeopardize the only bright spot for his reelection in the stock market and economy so he "spun" the virus as not a big deal.  Unfortunately the virus didn't allow him to invent a reality and it just ignored those attempts and proceeded to infect.  Trump now looks woefully unprepared and is looking for scapegoats and so he and his followers latch onto the WHO as the scapegoat.

But hey, why don't you work on the next conspiracy theory that Bill Gates and the Rotary Club are part of the freemasons and trying to inject virus mind control vaccines into people or something!   

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/who-funds-world-health-organization-un-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-trump/

Top 20 contributors to the Programme budget 2018 (US$ thousands)

The WHO Director-General (DG) Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has been an outspoken advocate for the Chinese government’s COVID-19 response. On January 28, Tedros met with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing. Following the meeting, Tedros commended China for “setting a new standard for outbreak control” and praised the country’s top leadership for its “openness to sharing information” with the WHO

https://www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

 

Sorry.  You can spin it anyway you want that the United States and other Countries should have known because we donate to the WHO.  The fact is, we did not.  We trusted the WHO, trusted their information. The 14 US employees working with them, who were not part of the CDC, trusted their info.  We were fed a crock of shit.  The entire West was.  This is not up for debate.  

You can say the US should have known and you would be correct.  That does not change the FACT, the WHO did a damn horrible job on this and continue to do so.  

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On 4/18/2020 at 5:19 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Yes we have officials working in cooperation with the WHO.  That does not change the fact they suppressed information given to them, not us, from us by Taiwan.

 

This time, the WHO was told the truth early on: Taiwanese health authorities sent their own medical teams to Wuhan in December. Those scientists confirmed human-to-human transmissionthe most crucial piece of information for determining the difference between a local tragedy (if viruses are only jumping from infected bats or pangolins to humans in wildlife markets where people interact directly with them) and a brewing global pandemic. Taiwan isn’t allowed to be a member of the WHO, because of China’s objections, but it still informed the organization. Hong Kong health authorities, too, announced as early as January 4 that they suspected human-to-human transmission was already occurring, as they also looked at the evidence and their own contacts in Wuhan.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/why-world-health-organization-failed/610063/

Except we have seen the memo and the boldest part of this hit job is an outright lie.   Of course, Trumpers, and you, never bother with facts.   

The letter from Taiwan 

On April 11, Taiwan released the contents of the email. When 7 atypical cases of pneumonia were reported in Wuhan, Taiwan’s Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) wrote to WHO informing that China had reported that the cases were not that of Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) even though samplers were under examination at that time. 

Taiwan’s CDC stated, “However because at the time there were as yet no cases of the disease in Taiwan, we could not state directly and conclusively that there had been human-to-human transmission.”

While Taiwan did send experts to China in January, they were not allowed to see any patients or to go to the market where the virus is believed to have originated, Chen said. That trip made Taiwanese officials realize they had to act quickly.

internal documents leaked from China shows that Beijing did not conclusively prove Covid resulted from human to human transmission until January 14th.   How long Party apparatchik in Wuhan withheld information is unclear.   What is also unclear is at what time did US intelligence agencies have proof of Human to Human transmission.   
 

Now China did lie to the WHO and others until Jan 20th when the WHO finally got boots on the ground and confirmed human to human transmission had occurred.    
 

so it appears the real liars in this case are:

China, this Article, @halfmanhalfbronco 
 

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On 4/18/2020 at 5:19 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

When independent access to Wuhan was denied, instead of simply relaying what China claimed as if it were factual, the WHO could have notified the world that an alarming situation was unfolding. It could have said that China was not allowing independent investigations, and that there were suggestions of human-to-human transmission that needed urgent investigation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/why-world-health-organization-failed/610063/

The last part of your article is true....

What we do not know is how much of the political pressure to not do so came from the US.  Trump at the time was actively supporting China and downplaying the Virus.   It’s not the first time Trump has directed something then threw those responding to his direction under the bus when things went south.

So could and should have the WHO done as stated above.  Absolutely!  Would they in reality buck pressure from China and most likely the US to not make such a statement.  Unlikely!   

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16 hours ago, Headbutt said:

Hell, that's nothing.  Have you heard that Trump colluded with Russia?!?

Yes, @retrofadespent more than 2 years on this board building his case for it and trying to convince us all the fairytale was real.

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3 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The WHO Director-General (DG) Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has been an outspoken advocate for the Chinese government’s COVID-19 response. On January 28, Tedros met with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing. Following the meeting, Tedros commended China for “setting a new standard for outbreak control” and praised the country’s top leadership for its “openness to sharing information” with the WHO

https://www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

 

Sorry.  You can spin it anyway you want that the United States and other Countries should have known because we donate to the WHO.  The fact is, we did not.  We trusted the WHO, trusted their information. The 14 US employees working with them, who were not part of the CDC, trusted their info.  We were fed a crock of shit.  The entire West was.  This is not up for debate.  

You can say the US should have known and you would be correct.  That does not change the FACT, the WHO did a damn horrible job on this and continue to do so.  

The fact is we did.  US intelligence agencies were providing briefings to Trump.  If you think US Intelligence relies solely on the WHO for their intelligence assessments you are a moron.  

Top health officials first learned of the virus’s spread in China on January 3, US Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said Friday. Throughout January and February, intelligence officials’ warnings became more and more urgent, according to the Post — and by early February, much of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the CIA’s intelligence reports were dedicated to warnings about Covid-19.   
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2020/3/21/21189179/coronavirus-trump-intelligence-reports-warned-pandemic

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3 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The WHO Director-General (DG) Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has been an outspoken advocate for the Chinese government’s COVID-19 response. On January 28, Tedros met with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing. Following the meeting, Tedros commended China for “setting a new standard for outbreak control” and praised the country’s top leadership for its “openness to sharing information” with the WHO

https://www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

 

Sorry.  You can spin it anyway you want that the United States and other Countries should have known because we donate to the WHO.  The fact is, we did not.  We trusted the WHO, trusted their information. The 14 US employees working with them, who were not part of the CDC, trusted their info.  We were fed a crock of shit.  The entire West was.  This is not up for debate.  

You can say the US should have known and you would be correct.  That does not change the FACT, the WHO did a damn horrible job on this and continue to do so.  

Hopefully, the troll derby will be over soon so you can get back to making substantive and factually accurate comments in this thread instead of the bullshit you are spewing to boost your case! 

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This distraction seems to be unraveling as quickly as hydroxychloroquine being a miracle drug.  I wonder if this thread will die as quickly as the SNAKE OIL one?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/americans-at-world-health-organization-transmitted-real-time-information-about-coronavirus-to-trump-administration/2020/04/19/951c77fa-818c-11ea-9040-68981f488eed_story.html#comments-wrapper

Americans at World Health Organization transmitted real-time information about coronavirus to Trump administration

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On 4/15/2020 at 4:12 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The WHO is not pro science!!!!!:hookah:

Maybe not, but they ARE a great ****ing band (or were anyway)!

 

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3 hours ago, Akkula said:

This distraction seems to be unraveling as quickly as hydroxychloroquine being a miracle drug.  I wonder if this thread will die as quickly as the SNAKE OIL one?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/americans-at-world-health-organization-transmitted-real-time-information-about-coronavirus-to-trump-administration/2020/04/19/951c77fa-818c-11ea-9040-68981f488eed_story.html#comments-wrapper

Americans at World Health Organization transmitted real-time information about coronavirus to Trump administration

Information provided by....the WHO.

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22 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Anybody with a brain knows the WHO was too busy sucking China's dick to serve their mission statement.

@sactowndog and @Akkula probably think Australia is racist.

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5 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Anybody with a brain know the WHO was too busy sucking China's dick to serve their mission statement.

@sactowndog and @Akkula probably think Australia is racist.

Well, we all know Germany is racist.

https://m.dw.com/en/what-influence-does-china-have-over-the-who/a-53161220

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8 hours ago, sactowndog said:

The last part of your article is true....

What we do not know is how much of the political pressure to not do so came from the US.  Trump at the time was actively supporting China and downplaying the Virus.   It’s not the first time Trump has directed something then threw those responding to his direction under the bus when things went south.

So could and should have the WHO done as stated above.  Absolutely!  Would they in reality buck pressure from China and most likely the US to not make such a statement.  Unlikely!   

Hey we are getting somewhere.  You are now admitting the WHO lied, because of overwhelming +++++ing evidence.  Now you are just consoling the fact you got your shit pushed in by claiming the US MADE THEM DO IT!  LMFAO.

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1 hour ago, BSUTOP25 said:

I think that is a good thing to do an independent review.   Btw, Australia opposed defunding the WHO and is concerned how it started and when China first knew about it.  I would also like to see Taiwan admitted to the UN over China’s certain objections.  

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56 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Again, Merkel specifically opposes cuts to WHO in the middle of a pandemic.   The article also states what I stated about the WHO’s behavior.....

Some experts argue that the WHO may have been worried that challenging Beijing in any way could have worsened the crisis by putting China on the defensive. "This could have potentially led to China sharing less information with the international community or to Beijing barring WHO experts from going to China," Thomas des Garets Geddes, a research fellow at the Berlin-based Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS) told DW.

Again, the WHO isn’t perfect and I agree about adding Taiwan as a member state to the UN and the WHO as I said early in this thread.  Those actions will actually reduce China’s ability to bend the WHO to its personal agenda.   

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1 hour ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Hey we are getting somewhere.  You are now admitting the WHO lied, because of overwhelming +++++ing evidence.  Now you are just consoling the fact you got your shit pushed in by claiming the US MADE THEM DO IT!  LMFAO.

No dumb shit.  A lie is a deliberate falsehood about something you know to not be true.   You know like when your hero Kustra said the bonus was a performance bonus.   I get you may struggle understanding this concept.  

The WHO failed to communicate their unproven suspicions.  My guess is neither Trump nor Xi Jinping wanted them to communicate this unsubstantiated concern, not a fact, in early January.  

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