Snake Oil

[Akkula]

1 hour ago, pokerider said:

Trump didn't pretend to discover anything.  You just need to go eat some Crow AGAIN.  

He just read something some dumbass wrote on Twitter or Alex Jones and now thinks his big brain is smarter than the scientists so he may as well toss out his BS knowledge instead of doing something productive.  He is the king of the bullshitters and you guys fall for it and eat it up every time.

[aztech]

On 4/7/2020 at 8:00 AM, edluvar said:

So based off that study you are good with the president going on national TV in America and pitching this to his low IQ base?   These people by and large probably don’t believe the FDA should exist because guberment is bad and will tend to believe anything Nacho says.   

You mean the same people who ate Trump steaks and washed them down with Trump wine?  I do credit them for getting educated however.  Those degrees from Trump University should contribute to their success.  Gotta love 'em. LOL

[FresnoFacts]

3 hours ago, SDSUfan said:

cool. find one going the other direction

LOL, didn't believe me or are you just needing to argue for arguments sake to release some of your stress.

Quote

Bernie Sanders criticizes MSNBC over coverage of his campaign

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/bernie-sanders-criticizes-msnbc-over-coverage-of-his-campaign/2020/02/24/d81ff79e-5724-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html

Quote

Hillary Clinton in her book "What Happened" about the NY Times -

"As a result, a lot of journalists see their job as exposing the devious machinations of the Clinton Machine. The Times has by no means been the only — or even the worst — offender, but its treatment has stung the most."

 

[Akkula]

See this is the problem with snake oil salesman and cults of personality.  The South Dakota governor decided to ignore the doctors who told her to implement social distancing and stay at home because we have a miracle cure, hydroxychloroquine, and now she has a huge hot spot for the virus?  Why would anyone do what the doctors say when you have plenty of kool aid to drink from the dear leader?  He says drinking the kool aid will make all of our problems disappear!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/south-dakotas-governor-resisted-ordering-people-to-stay-home-now-it-has-one-of-the-nations-largest-coronavirus-hot-spots/2020/04/13/5cff90fe-7daf-11ea-a3ee-13e1ae0a3571_story.html

@BSUTOP25 do you want to write another soliloquy about individual rights and how the mean ol gubmit is trying to take away your freedom?  Maybe you should consider writing something about those low wage workers at that meat plant who weren't forced by the corrupt government to stay at home but where the gubmit turned a blind eye and allowed them to be exploited and put to work in close conditions during a viral outbreak endangering the whole community for a cheap buck.  How much "freedom and liberty" do they have when they had to choose between bringing the virus home to their family or bringing food home to them? The Freedom to Fire is a fundamental American freedom that we must preserve during times of crisis (along with making people vote in person to expose them to the virus)! FREEDOM and LIBERTY!!!!

Meanwhile...the dotard whose administration punted and basically told the governors they were on their own with PPE and deciding to close their state economies now says "HE ALONE"  has the right to make the decision on when to open up the economy!  But..he promises we will have plenty of hydroxychloroquine on hand!  The great conjob federalists who are so cautious about trampling on state rights are very happy to tell blue states they must open up and that the governors have no role in the decision.  The federal government completely failed in the run up but now Donald wants to run up to the front of the parade now that it is organized and moving in the right direction.  LET FREEDOM RING!  

[BSUTOP25]

1 hour ago, Akkula said:

See this is the problem with snake oil salesman and cults of personality.  The South Dakota governor decided to ignore the doctors who told her to implement social distancing and stay at home because we have a miracle cure, hydroxychloroquine, and now she has a huge hot spot for the virus?  Why would anyone do what the doctors say when you have plenty of kool aid to drink from the dear leader?  He says drinking the kool aid will make all of our problems disappear!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/south-dakotas-governor-resisted-ordering-people-to-stay-home-now-it-has-one-of-the-nations-largest-coronavirus-hot-spots/2020/04/13/5cff90fe-7daf-11ea-a3ee-13e1ae0a3571_story.html

@BSUTOP25 do you want to write another soliloquy about individual rights and how the mean ol gubmit is trying to take away your freedom?  Maybe you should consider writing something about those low wage workers at that meat plant who weren't forced by the corrupt government to stay at home but where the gubmit turned a blind eye and allowed them to be exploited and put to work in close conditions during a viral outbreak endangering the whole community for a cheap buck.  How much "freedom and liberty" do they have when they had to choose between bringing the virus home to their family or bringing food home to them? The Freedom to Fire is a fundamental American freedom that we must preserve during times of crisis (along with making people vote in person to expose them to the virus)! FREEDOM and LIBERTY!!!!

Meanwhile...the dotard whose administration punted and basically told the governors they were on their own with PPE and deciding to close their state economies now says "HE ALONE"  has the right to make the decision on when to open up the economy!  But..he promises we will have plenty of hydroxychloroquine on hand!  The great conjob federalists who are so cautious about trampling on state rights are very happy to tell blue states they must open up and that the governors have no role in the decision.  The federal government completely failed in the run up but now Donald wants to run up to the front of the parade now that it is organized and moving in the right direction.  LET FREEDOM RING!  

+++++ your authoritarian perspective. I’d rather die of the virus than by a firing squad of communist mother+++++ers like you. You can go to hell you sleazy police state loving cocksucking piece of shit. You want to throw me in a gulag, come and get me bitch.

[happycamper]

18 hours ago, SDSUfan said:

Z-pak causes heart arrhythmia.  This is known.  This is NOT an effect of Chloroquine

https://nypost.com/2020/04/04/long-island-doctor-tries-new-hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-19-patients/

You sound like when an accountant tries to tell someone about engineering

[BSUTOP25]

29 minutes ago, happycamper said:

You sound like when an accountant tries to tell someone about engineering

A lot of self taught clinicians have sprung up over the past couple of months. 

[SDSUfan]

4 hours ago, Akkula said:

See this is the problem with snake oil salesman and cults of personality.  The South Dakota governor decided to ignore the doctors who told her to implement social distancing and stay at home because we have a miracle cure, hydroxychloroquine, and now she has a huge hot spot for the virus?  Why would anyone do what the doctors say when you have plenty of kool aid to drink from the dear leader?  He says drinking the kool aid will make all of our problems disappear!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/south-dakotas-governor-resisted-ordering-people-to-stay-home-now-it-has-one-of-the-nations-largest-coronavirus-hot-spots/2020/04/13/5cff90fe-7daf-11ea-a3ee-13e1ae0a3571_story.html

@BSUTOP25 do you want to write another soliloquy about individual rights and how the mean ol gubmit is trying to take away your freedom?  Maybe you should consider writing something about those low wage workers at that meat plant who weren't forced by the corrupt government to stay at home but where the gubmit turned a blind eye and allowed them to be exploited and put to work in close conditions during a viral outbreak endangering the whole community for a cheap buck.  How much "freedom and liberty" do they have when they had to choose between bringing the virus home to their family or bringing food home to them? The Freedom to Fire is a fundamental American freedom that we must preserve during times of crisis (along with making people vote in person to expose them to the virus)! FREEDOM and LIBERTY!!!!

Meanwhile...the dotard whose administration punted and basically told the governors they were on their own with PPE and deciding to close their state economies now says "HE ALONE"  has the right to make the decision on when to open up the economy!  But..he promises we will have plenty of hydroxychloroquine on hand!  The great conjob federalists who are so cautious about trampling on state rights are very happy to tell blue states they must open up and that the governors have no role in the decision.  The federal government completely failed in the run up but now Donald wants to run up to the front of the parade now that it is organized and moving in the right direction.  LET FREEDOM RING!  

903,000 -So Dakota Population

868 - Total number positive for the Chinese Flu

6- Total death from the Chinese Flu

0 - total deaths for those under age 50

Goddamn you are one stupid mother+++++er

 

 

 

 

[pokerider]

On 4/13/2020 at 3:24 PM, Akkula said:

He just read something some dumbass wrote on Twitter or Alex Jones and now thinks his big brain is smarter than the scientists so he may as well toss out his BS knowledge instead of doing something productive.  He is the king of the bullshitters and you guys fall for it and eat it up every time.

LOL -  "you guys fall for it"?  you still can't accept that Hydroxychloroquine is being used successfully in helping patients recover from Covid virus. 

[BSUTOP25]

11 minutes ago, pokerider said:

LOL -  "you guys fall for it"?  you still can't accept that Hydroxychloroquine is being used successfully in helping patients recover from Covid virus. 

It’s being shown to help in certain cases but not all. Both sides of this hydroxychoroquine debate need to slow down and allow the data to reveal some actual insights. 

[tspoke]

3 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

It’s being shown to help in certain cases but not all. Both sides of this hydroxychoroquine debate need to slow down and allow the data to reveal some actual insights. 

Isn't that opinion one of the "sides" of this debate. Lets not push it as a miracle cure until we see more data.

[BSUTOP25]

2 minutes ago, tspoke said:

Isn't that opinion one of the "sides" of this debate. Lets not push it as a miracle cure until we see more data.

Perhaps the one side, or at least the OP, shouldn’t refer to the treatment as “snake oil?” 

But I believe we are in agreement that this shouldn’t be either quickly dismissed or promoted as a miracle until the data reveals some actual efficacy percentages weighed against the adverse effects. 

[Stealthlobo]

34 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Perhaps the one side, or at least the OP, shouldn’t refer to the treatment as “snake oil?” 

But I believe we are in agreement that this shouldn’t be either quickly dismissed or promoted as a miracle until the data reveals some actual efficacy percentages weighed against the adverse effects. 

This.

[FresnoFacts]

There are many potential vaccines and treatments being tried.

I would not want to rely on any of them until there was good data to weigh results against potential side effects and interactions.

For example, Australia along with other countries are testing the BCG vaccine for tuberculosis as a potential way to strengthen the immune system against coronavirus.

An east coast organization wants to try the same theory using the oral polio vaccine.

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-13/old-vaccines-for-other-germs-being-tested-against-the-new-coronavirus

[SDSUfan]

2 hours ago, tspoke said:

Isn't that opinion one of the "sides" of this debate. Lets not push it as a miracle cure until we see more data.

No. One side calls it Snake Oil. You can't revise and distort an argument  when its in the phucking title of the phucking thread.

Trump never said it was a "miracle cure"( another outright distortion). He said it could be a "game changer"  and he said it when the prevailing sentiment was that there was no vaccine and no cure.  It was a statement of hope when all anyone else had to peddle was doom and gloom.

It turns out that it is indeed providing hope and is in FACT one of the main if not the main treatment for the afflicted. It is in FACT saving lives.  It is decidedly NOT Snake Oil.  It is proven to be effective and the history of millions of people the world over ingesting billions of doses as both a treatment and a prophylactic for Malaria give ample evidence of its relative safety. All that remains to be determined is how effective it is as a prophylactic for this particular corona virus.  Those studies are on-going and are building on other studies related to its prophylactic use for SARS, another corona virus where is was shown to quite effective.

So no. there aren't two equal sides in this thread. One side is right and one side is wrong. Those that try and split the baby are only doing so because Orange Man Bad and they can't bring themselves to admit the man is absolutely correct on this issue.

 

 

 

[BSUTOP25]

26 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

No. One side calls it Snake Oil. You can't revise and distort an argument  when its in the phucking title of the phucking thread.

Trump never said it was a "miracle cure"( another outright distortion). He said it could be a "game changer"  and he said it when the prevailing sentiment was that there was no vaccine and no cure.  It was a statement of hope when all anyone else had to peddle was doom and gloom.

It turns out that it is indeed providing hope and is in FACT one of the main if not the main treatment for the afflicted. It is in FACT saving lives.  It is decidedly NOT Snake Oil.  It is proven to be effective and the history of millions of people the world over ingesting billions of doses as both a treatment and a prophylactic for Malaria give ample evidence of its relative safety. All that remains to be determined is how effective it is as a prophylactic for this particular corona virus.  Those studies are on-going and are building on other studies related to its prophylactic use for SARS, another corona virus where is was shown to quite effective.

So no. there aren't two equal sides in this thread. One side is right and one side is wrong. Those that try and split the baby are only doing so because Orange Man Bad and they can't bring themselves to admit the man is absolutely correct on this issue.

Hold up, there is not enough data to demonstrate that hydroxychloroquine is "saving lives" when it comes to COVID-19. In fact, there is early evidence to suggest only minor efficacy and serious side effects:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/health/new-french-study-hydroxychloroquine/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/science/hydroxychloroquine-does-not-clear-coronavirus-but-can-alleviate-symptoms-study-says

A better OP title would have been along the lines of "Politicians, non-clinicians, and uninformed messageboard posters shouldn't make rash non-verifiable statements on hydroxychloroquine's efficacy" ... or something along those lines. Only time and verifiable data will determine whether or not hydroxychloroquine is an adequate treatment for some people. 

[Stealthlobo]

7 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Hold up, there is not enough data to demonstrate that hydroxychloroquine is "saving lives" when it comes to COVID-19. In fact, there is early evidence to suggest only minor efficacy and serious side effects:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/health/new-french-study-hydroxychloroquine/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/science/hydroxychloroquine-does-not-clear-coronavirus-but-can-alleviate-symptoms-study-says

A better OP title would have been along the lines of "Politicians, non-clinicians, and uninformed messageboard posters shouldn't make rash non-verifiable statements on hydroxychloroquine's efficacy" ... or something along those lines. Only time and verifiable data will determine whether or not hydroxychloroquine is an adequate treatment for some people. 

Don't bother. I've tried multiple times to show him the data just isn't there yet. But he believes his article on primate cells trumps the lack of full clinical data.

[renoskier]

36 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

No. One side calls it Snake Oil. You can't revise and distort an argument  when its in the phucking title of the phucking thread.

Trump never said it was a "miracle cure"( another outright distortion). He said it could be a "game changer"  and he said it when the prevailing sentiment was that there was no vaccine and no cure.  It was a statement of hope when all anyone else had to peddle was doom and gloom.

It turns out that it is indeed providing hope and is in FACT one of the main if not the main treatment for the afflicted. It is in FACT saving lives.  It is decidedly NOT Snake Oil.  It is proven to be effective and the history of millions of people the world over ingesting billions of doses as both a treatment and a prophylactic for Malaria give ample evidence of its relative safety. All that remains to be determined is how effective it is as a prophylactic for this particular corona virus.  Those studies are on-going and are building on other studies related to its prophylactic use for SARS, another corona virus where is was shown to quite effective.

So no. there aren't two equal sides in this thread. One side is right and one side is wrong. Those that try and split the baby are only doing so because Orange Man Bad and they can't bring themselves to admit the man is absolutely correct on this issue.

 

 

 

One side? Or one poster?

Not the same.

[FresnoFacts]

41 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

Trump never said it was a "miracle cure"( another outright distortion). He said it could be a "game changer"  and he said it when the prevailing sentiment was that there was no vaccine and no cure.  It was a statement of hope when all anyone else had to peddle was doom and gloom.

Trump did not say "miracle cure" as far as I remember. But he did use the word "miracle" in relation to it.

According to the White House transcript (not the media), when talking about Michigan State Rep. Karen Whitsett and hydroxychloroquine on April 7, Trump used the word.

Quote

THE PRESIDENT:  But I appreciate that woman.  She was great.  You have to see it to believe it.  The way she spoke, it was like a miracle.  And this was not a fan of mine, but she’s a fan of mine now, and I’m very honored by it.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-april-7-2020/

Unfortunately some people will be looking for a "miracle" and may listen to that word choice.

It is like the drug ads on TV. People see the ad and go running to their doctor, sometimes simply asking about it as a possibility but sometimes demanding it be prescribed.

[SDSUfan]

45 minutes ago, FresnoFacts said:

Trump did not say "miracle cure" as far as I remember. But he did use the word "miracle" in relation to it.

According to the White House transcript (not the media), when talking about Michigan State Rep. Karen Whitsett and hydroxychloroquine on April 7, Trump used the word.

Unfortunately some people will be looking for a "miracle" and may listen to that word choice.

It is like the drug ads on TV. People see the ad and go running to their doctor, sometimes simply asking about it as a possibility but sometimes demanding it be prescribed.

What's your point?

If you have the Chinese Flu and you're NOT being treated by your physician with this Snake Oil, isn't it a legitimate inquiry as to why?

It's called agency. Everybody has it, including doctors who can choose to prescribe it or not and the patient who is free to ask for it and the President who can raise awareness of it.