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BSUTOP25

Live Free or Die

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1 hour ago, Maynard Delecto said:

If that makes you feel better somehow then cool. But slacktivism is a dead end as far as RL goes.

ABC123 PD bangs on someone's door: "Open up, or else!"

The reply shd be: 

A BSUTOP25 says he supports my Rights so eff off

B Is there is a warrant issued for this specific address?

 

ABC123 PD thug makes you an offer to accept his authority so he can write you a ticket or arrest you for disobeying their directive

A Accept the offer by volunteering evidence against yourself, like name, ID, etc...

B Decline the offer and volunteer nothing, ask if you're being detained. If you're being detained, then what crime is alleged to have been committed?

 

 

I would agree with option B in all cases.  Police don’t have the right to go door to door.  You are social distancing in your own house.

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15 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

I've held my tongue so far on a lot of the actions the government is taking in response to this COVID-19 crisis. Like most of you, I am frightened and saddened by what is happening to our people, that this invisible killer is taking precious lives and destroying things we as a nation hold dear. This invader has been on the offensive for months now, forcing us to react in ways we never thought we would. I myself have questioned some of my own philosophies throughout this pandemic, because we have entered a scenario that is unprecedented and we as a society were woefully unprepared for. 

That all being said, I had almost a full afternoon to meditate and center myself. And a calm came over me as I remembered what makes myself as an individual and we as a country different from the masses. It simply comes down to liberty and the rule of law. It's the law which has kept our American experiment going for almost 232 years now. We are an imperfect nation, one that has dark moments that keep us grounded and honest about our frailty and the dangers of our depravity. But we are also a nation that is honest about who we are and the evils we've done. And now we are faced with an advisory that will force us to make decisions that will either preserve or erode the very liberties people had died for to establish and protect. 

In the midst of this nightmare pandemic, I have decided that I will not support the government taking any of our civil rights away in order to "save lives." I will not support the government intruding on our privacy as an excuse to control the disease. I will not support the government policing our movement, our commerce, our speech, our property, our faith or rejection of. I will not submit to an authoritarian state that suspends habeas corpus or due process. If our government attempts to dilute or rearchitect the Constitution to react to this disease, the republic will have folded. 

If given the choice of dying from COVID-19 or government tyranny, I would choose COVID-19 without hesitation. Freedom shines brighter than any virus. If you kill liberty to "treat" an illness, you will have gained nothing. There are some things worse than a pandemic. I will end by quoting New Hampshire's General John Stark:

Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.

I guess I just don't see much of a difference between "temporary, generally consensual temporary abrogation of rights" and "standard rights, but not social distancing is reckless endangerment to involuntary manslaughter". The first has historical precedent and historically ends; the second could easily become a more permanent authoritarian bludgeon within even a very libertarian existing legal framework. 

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1 hour ago, Maynard Delecto said:

You're free to social distance all you want

No shit.

Sherlock.

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23 minutes ago, Spaztecs said:

No shit.

Sherlock.

 So there's nothing to complain about, and no reason to collapse the economy. Glad we agree

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The temporary suspension of rights argument is the same one made at Manzanar.

I don't consider myself a radical, and I don't think most board members think of me that way either.

But when I listen to people say things like it's only temporary, or it's in the common interest.   I literally see words from history books I've read about how societies made terrible mistakes and went down a dark path without intending to.

Make no mistake, many officials, many in the government and much of the media are trying to manipulate you.  In most instances they are doing it for what they see as a just cause, and it may be.  But there is an intentional effort to distort information to get the public to do what they want.

People will give up their and especially others freedom in a heartbeat for their families safety, we have to be taught to do otherwise.

If we are going to give up our civil rights, each and every one we surrender needs to be justified and debated, and done so in a measured and legal framework.

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In Kentucky some people who have tested positive for the virus are refusing to self-quarantine.

The courts are ordering some people to go on ankle monitoring.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/04/02/coronavirus-louisville-4th-person-ordered-wear-ankle-monitor/5111569002/

While in another Kentucky case, a patient with coronavirus checked himself out of the hospital and refused to quarantine at home. A judge issued a quarantine order to be enforced by law enforcement being stationed outside his home.

https://www.kentucky.com/news/health-and-medicine/article241200076.html

 

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3 minutes ago, FresnoFacts said:

In Kentucky some people who have tested positive for the virus are refusing to self-quarantine.

The courts are ordering some people to go on ankle monitoring.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/04/02/coronavirus-louisville-4th-person-ordered-wear-ankle-monitor/5111569002/

While in another Kentucky case, a patient with coronavirus checked himself out of the hospital and refused to quarantine at home. A judge issued a quarantine order to be enforced by law enforcement being stationed outside his home.

https://www.kentucky.com/news/health-and-medicine/article241200076.html

 

There is judicial precedent for enforcing quarantine of people known to be a hazard to the public.

I don't have any issue with the State of Kentucky on the instances you are citing.

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I knew this thread would be controversial. This is a time when many people simply want to concentrate on protecting their households, and for good reason. 

However, there still needs to be thought and voice put forth to ask the questions about where lines get drawn, how much authority we are willing to grant, what we are willing to give up, for how long, and under what circumstances we are willing to let this happen again by setting a precedent. And while clampdowns may seem to the a logical approach to solving the current crisis, we need to think about the post-event and long-term consequences. 

So whether you agree or disagree with the premise, if you think me an extremist or blow hard, I felt compelled to raise the topic and assert my convictions. 

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You should go check out the Bundy rally.   Lots of freedom there.   Just stay away from the rest of us.   

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Seems like the basis of this thread is to support Americas refusing to follow the shelter in place and social separation directives.  Instead Americans have rights under the Constitution to assemble and worship God and the government cannot stop that.  In the name of religious freedom holy people are entitled to infect each other with a deadly virus and pass that virus on to other people.  That is a right in the Constitution.  If God did not intend us to pass the virus on to others He would not have given it to us.  

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22 hours ago, toonkee said:

patrick swayze 80s GIF

 

I imagine it would be easier to mount an insurgency against an oppressive government than against a virus.

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7 hours ago, CPslograd said:

The temporary suspension of rights argument is the same one made at Manzanar.

I don't consider myself a radical, and I don't think most board members think of me that way either.

But when I listen to people say things like it's only temporary, or it's in the common interest.   I literally see words from history books I've read about how societies made terrible mistakes and went down a dark path without intending to.

Make no mistake, many officials, many in the government and much of the media are trying to manipulate you.  In most instances they are doing it for what they see as a just cause, and it may be.  But there is an intentional effort to distort information to get the public to do what they want.

People will give up their and especially others freedom in a heartbeat for their families safety, we have to be taught to do otherwise.

If we are going to give up our civil rights, each and every one we surrender needs to be justified and debated, and done so in a measured and legal framework.

You aren’t a radical but you are such a Republican team player it doesn’t matter what Trump does you will never criticize him and no bridge is a bridge too far.  
 

Too make a point about illegals he separated kids from their parents.  Some of which have never been reunited   You were silent.

Too undercut Biden he used US aide as a lever for personal gain.  You were silent

Too build his wall he is attempting to misappropriate funds in direct violation of Congresses power of the purse.  You were silent.
 
As of now, it strongly appears Trump fired a Navy Commander for protecting his crew from CoronaVirus after a stop in Vietnam that was politically mandated.  You remain silent.  

Now you worry about civil rIghts with out pointing out at all the Trump administration is leading the abrogation of those rights.  You remain silent. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023

I’m sorry if I find your Manzanar reference self serving and disingenuous.  When I see you once stand up to the Trump administration and say it’s a line too far and you would actually oppose him then I will change my mind.   

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7 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

I knew this thread would be controversial. This is a time when many people simply want to concentrate on protecting their households, and for good reason. 

However, there still needs to be thought and voice put forth to ask the questions about where lines get drawn, how much authority we are willing to grant, what we are willing to give up, for how long, and under what circumstances we are willing to let this happen again by setting a precedent. And while clampdowns may seem to the a logical approach to solving the current crisis, we need to think about the post-event and long-term consequences. 

So whether you agree or disagree with the premise, if you think me an extremist or blow hard, I felt compelled to raise the topic and assert my convictions. 

Actually, I’m not sure it is that controversial.  

1) we all agree that people should voluntarily self quarantine

2) we almost all agree if you have tested positive for CoronaVirus you don’t have the right to impact others lives by roaming around the neighborhood

3) no one disagrees that what Rhode Island is doing is wrong.  That no state should be allowed to impose rules on citizens from another state that aren’t imposed on their own residents.   

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I think a lot of voices are raising concerns stated in the OP, and that is heartening to someone who shares them. I have been mostly concerned, at least in the short term, of what seemed like a lack of vehement public concern over these measures. While I am still deeply concerned and troubled about many aspects of the response thus far, I am a little bit more encouraged that this is being brought up by public figures who also generally advocate for stricter measures than I would be comfortable with. 

That being said, I could also see us halfway though summer with absolutely no answer to when we will be allowed out of our homes without papers or a reasonable explanation for why our errand is "essential." If that is the case, we will be in legit scary territory and IMO on the verge of violent disobedience in many places. 

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17 hours ago, sactowndog said:

You aren’t a radical but you are such a Republican team player it doesn’t matter what Trump does you will never criticize him and no bridge is a bridge too far.  
 

Too make a point about illegals he separated kids from their parents.  Some of which have never been reunited   You were silent.

Too undercut Biden he used US aide as a lever for personal gain.  You were silent

Too build his wall he is attempting to misappropriate funds in direct violation of Congresses power of the purse.  You were silent.
 
As of now, it strongly appears Trump fired a Navy Commander for protecting his crew from CoronaVirus after a stop in Vietnam that was politically mandated.  You remain silent.  

Now you worry about civil rIghts with out pointing out at all the Trump administration is leading the abrogation of those rights.  You remain silent. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023

I’m sorry if I find your Manzanar reference self serving and disingenuous.  When I see you once stand up to the Trump administration and say it’s a line too far and you would actually oppose him then I will change my mind.   

 

Who do you think I am talking about when I say the government is misleading people intentionally?  It's at all levels, federal, state, and local.

Most of your babble above is rambling non sequiter.  I'm not going to waste my or others time responding to it.

 

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21 hours ago, sactowndog said:

You aren’t a radical but you are such a Republican team player it doesn’t matter what Trump does you will never criticize him and no bridge is a bridge too far.  
 

Too make a point about illegals he separated kids from their parents.  Some of which have never been reunited   You were silent.

Too undercut Biden he used US aide as a lever for personal gain.  You were silent

Too build his wall he is attempting to misappropriate funds in direct violation of Congresses power of the purse.  You were silent.
 
As of now, it strongly appears Trump fired a Navy Commander for protecting his crew from CoronaVirus after a stop in Vietnam that was politically mandated.  You remain silent.  

Now you worry about civil rIghts with out pointing out at all the Trump administration is leading the abrogation of those rights.  You remain silent. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023

I’m sorry if I find your Manzanar reference self serving and disingenuous.  When I see you once stand up to the Trump administration and say it’s a line too far and you would actually oppose him then I will change my mind.   

Sacto, give it a phucking break. 

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1 minute ago, modestobulldog said:

Sacto, give it a phucking break. 

Modesto as soon as you all quit turning a blind eye to all the shit Trump does i will. 

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20 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

I think a lot of voices are raising concerns stated in the OP, and that is heartening to someone who shares them. I have been mostly concerned, at least in the short term, of what seemed like a lack of vehement public concern over these measures. While I am still deeply concerned and troubled about many aspects of the response thus far, I am a little bit more encouraged that this is being brought up by public figures who also generally advocate for stricter measures than I would be comfortable with. 

That being said, I could also see us halfway though summer with absolutely no answer to when we will be allowed out of our homes without papers or a reasonable explanation for why our errand is "essential." If that is the case, we will be in legit scary territory and IMO on the verge of violent disobedience in many places. 

Home run, circle the bases.

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