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Debt Jubilee Maybe Be Solution to Corona Economic Collapse

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10 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

My wife was the first person in her family to go to college and she got a PhD from an ivy league without any debt. Her dad drove bulldozers.

She made choices. 

Where did she do her undergrad and masters work? How were those paid for?

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6 minutes ago, DoubleBlueGold said:

Is an 17-23y/o who desperately wants an education to gain social mobility really being irresponsible? Or is the system irresponsible by allowing said student to take on a huge loan that delivers a false sense of social mobility?

Why can't that 17-23 y/o work and go to a cheap community college for the first two years of school (free tuition, books, and laptops in CA for low income students, $690/semester otherwise) and then work and save up money to go to a less expensive state school to finish the last two years?

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11 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

My wife was the first person in her family to go to college and she got a PhD from an ivy league without any debt. Her dad drove bulldozers.

She made choices. 

You're too damn smart to be using personal anecdotes as the solution. 

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Under the financial aid program, which Stanford expanded in 2015, Stanford will continue to provide free tuition for typical parents with incomes below $125,000. Typical parents with incomes below $65,000 are not expected to pay tuition, mandatory fees, room or board.
 

Stanford is not the only school that offers the same. 

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10 minutes ago, Fowl said:

Why can't that 17-23 y/o work and go to a cheap community college for the first two years of school (free tuition, books, and laptops in CA for low income students, $690/semester otherwise) and then work and save up money to go to a less expensive state school to finish the last two years?

Which is exactly what I did. I also worked going through college and ended up debt free. It’s also a matter of choices. My younger brother decided he wanted to party away his young adult years instead of getting an education. He ended up being a truck driver most of his adult life. How many are there like my brother? 

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13 minutes ago, Fowl said:

Why can't that 17-23 y/o work and go to a cheap community college for the first two years of school (free tuition, books, and laptops in CA for low income students, $690/semester otherwise) and then work and save up money to go to a less expensive state school to finish the last two years?

Why must they have to work while they study? Why must they have to go to community college first? Why don't we just start asking all kids to start working and saving the moment are sent to kindergarten?

For the record, not all CA community colleges are applying that program. Once all do, how long before the "I don't want to pay more taxes" group starts hollering about it is further reduced or scrapped. Community college is cheap for middle class and wealthy students. Not for lower class kids. 

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Just now, soupslam1 said:

Which is exactly what I did. I also worked going through college and ended up debt free. 

It is not uncommon to work while going to college. I certainly did too. Applying "the I did it, so everyone else should too" mentality is ineffective and self-centered.

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7 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Which is exactly what I did. I also worked going through college and ended up debt free. It’s also a matter of choices. My younger brother decided he wanted to party away his young adult years instead of getting an education. He ended up being a truck driver most of his adult life. How many are there like my brother? 

Time and time again, in your posts, a lack of critical thinking is demonstrated. 

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24 minutes ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

If she has a post-graduate degree with no outstanding debt, she's pretty exceptional. Over 90% of people with professional degrees have debt, and 2/3rds of people with a masters degree have it. The number for all college degree holders system-wide is around 70%. Even in fields that mostly have funding available (research doctorates like ours), over half of people have some kind of debt. This points to a systemic problem, not one of personal choice. If people could just "choose" to be debt-free, they would. 

 Despite your rather problematic use of anecdotal evidence, you do seem to draw a line between "moderate and manageable debt" and "a shit ton of student debt." What is this line for you? How much debt is acceptable before it becomes a matter of personal responsibility?

I have had the same experiences as @smltwnrckr. My family made too much money growing up, and we didn't qualify for much financial assistance. Co signed loans were a no go. Instead my siblings and I went different paths. Junior colleges to state schools, while working minimized debt. The military provides excellent education benefits post service. It is possible to graduate college with a usable degree and a valuable skillset without a mountain of debt. It is not easy, it is a sacrifice. My life would have been much better if I was out partying at a frat instead of working nights, or if I went to a better school like Stanford and racked up debt with the clarity that I wouldn't be responsible for it. 

It's not just my family. Most of the working professionals I know are vehemently against student loan forgiveness as well. Fairness and justice are important themes in our country. You argue that because the system is broken people should not be responsible for their decisions because of fundamental injustice. I agree that the system needs an overhaul, but there are still options to limit debt. It is a greater injustice to those that were responsible to institute a college debt jubilee. 

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7 minutes ago, DoubleBlueGold said:

Why must they have to work while they study? Why must they have to go to community college first? Why don't we just start asking all kids to start working and saving the moment are sent to kindergarten?

Community college is cheap for middle class and wealthy students. Not for lower class kids. 

What’s wrong with going to a community college? You take the same courses you would at a four year university except at far less cost. 

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2 minutes ago, DoubleBlueGold said:

Time and time again, in your posts, a lack of critical thinking is demonstrated. 

And time and time again you offer a barrel full of excuses. It’s hard to believe you are an educater. 

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6 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

What’s wrong with going to a community college? You take the same courses you would at a four year university except at far less cost. 

Where did I say there's anything wrong with that? It's a question for the people who think that lower-class students should go there first instead of directly to a four-year to think about. 

Again, the lack of analytical thinking is present in the reply. 

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2 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

And time and time again you offer a barrel full of excuses. It’s hard to believe you are an educater. 

Excuses? It sounds like you are trying way too hard. (I understand your pattern.)

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7 minutes ago, DoubleBlueGold said:

Where did I say there's anything wrong with that? It's a question for the people who think that lower-class students should go there first instead of directly to a four-year to think about. 

Again, the lack of analytical thinking in present in the reply.

 


Aren’t we are talking about getting a degree without running up a huge debt? Going to a community college is one way of doing that whether you are rich or poor. I was one of those lower class students and I never felt it was beneath me to attend a community college. Who has a lack of analytical thinking? 

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1 hour ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

What is this line for you? How much debt is acceptable before it becomes a matter of personal responsibility?

For me, it was 37% of my starting salary.  It worked out well for me.

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1 minute ago, soupslam1 said:
7 minutes ago, DoubleBlueGold said:

Where did I say there's anything wrong with that? It's a question for the people who think that lower-class students should go there first instead of directly to a four-year to think about. 

Again, the lack of analytical thinking in present in the reply.

 


Aren’t we are talking about getting a degree without running up a huge debt? Going to a community college is one way of doing that if you are rich or poor. I was one of those lower class students and Inever felt it was beneath me to attend a community college. Who has a lack of analytical thinking? 

 Yes, it i s a way. It should not be presented as the only way. Definitely not the solution as presented by you and others. 

Well you're displaying it again. In an ideal outcome, you would understand that not everyone is required to take your path.

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I think Trump and Mitt Romney should make amends. Are there any two actors better at debt obfuscation?

What we do is load up China on our debt and default, err send a C19 bill and deduct from debt owed.  It would just be a dispute.  We can call it Trump Romney Bain.

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2 minutes ago, DoubleBlueGold said:

 Yes, it i s a way. It should not be presented as the only way. Definitely not the solution as presented by you and others. 

Well you're displaying it again. In an ideal outcome, you would understand that not everyone is required to take your path.

We aren’t talking about the ideal here. We’re talking about getting an degree without running up a huge debt. 

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Just now, soupslam1 said:

We aren’t talking about the ideal here. We’re talking about getting an degree without running up a huge debt. 

Once again, my observations have been proven. 

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15 hours ago, Los_Aztecas said:

I would be on board with UBI. The problem with a debt jubilee is that it disproportionally rewards people who have been the least responsible. While the crash isn't their fault, the people that would benefit most from this jubilee probably weren't well positioned from the onset. A UBI to make sure that they could meet their basic needs and would be fairer to the rest of us.

Well, even more than that, it teaches people to go out and buy everything they think they need to be happy from cars, boats, clothes, trips, RV’s, etc. and they can worry about paying it back later. It’s not a problem right now to buy.

Debt is often times a psychological combination of rationalization, lack of discipline, poor planning, not being responsible etc. and those behaviors need to be addressed with people or they’re going to go right back and and load up again. School debt is a different thing, but it does also include poor life decisions and a lack of responsibility. For example, why would you go to a super expensive no name college and spend $100,000 on a liberal arts degree that’s almost worthless? Or pick a major that’s not in demand? Or pick a major where there are only a small number of jobs that will ever be open? 

My 3 problems with it. 1. Many don’t deserve it and it’s not fair to responsible people that did everything right. Why should they have to pay for others that didn’t. 2. It’s divisive. Cocky neighbor across the street just got his motor home, boats and Vegas trip debt wiped clean essentially giving him all of it and that’s going to piss off others that live around him. 3. We can’t afford to do it. 

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